Legendary sportswriter Rick Reilly joins The Other Tom Green Show to reflect on the life and legacy of Nuggets coaching icon Doug Moe and share stories from his early days covering Denver sports at the Boulder Camera. Reilly dives into his experiences writing Sports Illustrated’s iconic back page, the evolution of journalism in the digital age, and the realities facing today’s media landscape. The conversation spans from Moe’s uniquely honest coaching style and relationships with reporters to the changing dynamics between athletes and media, the collapse of newspaper sports sections, and how podcasts are reshaping modern storytelling. Reilly also previews his upcoming sequel to “Who’s Your Caddy?” while recounting unforgettable moments from caddying for celebrities, billionaires, and golf legends.
In the wake of Doug Moe’s passing, Tom Green welcomes longtime friend and acclaimed sportswriter Rick Reilly to discuss Moe’s lasting impact on the Denver Nuggets and what made him one of the most accessible and authentic figures in professional sports. Reilly shares memories from covering Moe early in his career and contrasts Moe’s laid-back, honest approach with more traditional coaching personalities like Pat Riley and Dan Reeves. The conversation expands into Reilly’s journey from Boulder to the back page of Sports Illustrated, where he became one of the most widely read columnists in America, and the pressures that came with producing must-read national commentary each week. Reilly also examines how journalism has evolved from the print-first era to today’s digital ecosystem, where reporters are expected to produce across multiple platforms instantly while competing with athlete-driven media and independent creators. The episode closes with reflections on the decline of major newspaper sports sections, the rise of podcasts, and the importance of storytelling in preserving sports history.
00;00;01;19 – Remembering Doug Moe & Media-Coach Relationships
00;02;17;00 – Rick Reilly Joins the Show
00;02;56;24 – New “Who’s Your Caddy?” Sequel & Pebble Beach Stories
00;07;07;09 – Caddying for the Worst Golfer in America
00;13;13;02 – Writing, Film Projects & Life After Sportswriting
00;15;47;00 – From Boulder Camera to SI Back Page
00;18;07;28 – Covering Doug Moe’s Nuggets
00;24;55;20 – Modern Journalism vs. Print Era Reporting
00;27;24;06 – The Multi-Platform Reporter Today
00;29;32;12 – The Fall of Newspaper Sports Sections
00;33;18;28 – Locker Rooms Then vs. Now
00;41;53;25 – Doug Moe’s Coaching Style & Legacy
00;44;07;16 – Moe vs. Pat Riley Coaching Philosophies
01;02;11;09 – Golf’s Post-COVID Boom
01;03;15;14 – Closing Thoughts with Rick Reilly
00;00;01;19 - 00;00;18;04
Tom Green
Hi, there. Welcome to another edition of the other Tom green show. Of course, this has been a difficult week. We've talked about the passing of the great Doug Moe. And we're going to get a chance to talk about Doug Moe from with a guy who knew him pretty well. Our old friend Rick Riley is going to join us in just a couple minutes.
00;00;18;04 - 00;00;38;09
Tom Green
But with Rick on and with the passing of Doug, it made me think about the relationship that different players and coaches have had with media members over the years. Now. Doug. Doug was the best at it because he just wanted to sit in the coffee shop when he was on the road and not just have coffee. He wanted to sit in the coffee shop all day.
00;00;38;16 - 00;00;58;06
Tom Green
So if you're on the road with the nuggets and you stop by the coffee shop, you got to sit and talk with Doug. He probably didn't want to talk about basketball with you, but he wanted to talk about everything else. Doug was legendarily easy to work with as a member of the media. And then there are other people you know, Sean Payton has a prickly relationship with the media.
00;00;58;09 - 00;01;20;14
Tom Green
We know many coaches. We watch Mick Cronin this week kind of meltdown with the UCLA head coach, just going after a reporter because he felt like it. And then there's a couple guys I remember a Chan Gailey, football coach, was an assistant here with Denver, later became the head coach of the Cowboys. But while he was here, one day, he asked me, he said, can I come down and watch you work?
00;01;20;16 - 00;01;40;00
Tom Green
And I don't think I've ever had anybody really ask me that. An active NFL coach or an assistant coach. And so I said, sure. And what it was, was Chan was curious, and I started to think about how important curiosity is. Curiosity is a gift that many people have, and some people don't, but it can be incredibly valuable.
00;01;40;00 - 00;02;00;02
Tom Green
Enjoyed the day with Chan. He had a lot of questions about how TV stations worked and how we go about putting what we put on the air. And, I thought I thought it was very interesting that he even asked, but it said a lot about the varieties of relationships that you can have, between media members and coaches and players.
00;02;00;02 - 00;02;16;27
Tom Green
We're going to get a chance to talk about all that with one of America's favorite sports writers. Our friend Rick Riley joins us today here on the other Tom Green Show.
00;02;17;00 - 00;02;23;26
Speaker 1
Right. Here he is, my old friend Rick Riley, who, it keeps telling us he's retiring from sports writing, but then you can't.
00;02;23;26 - 00;02;25;21
Speaker 4
You can't give it up. Ken, you.
00;02;25;23 - 00;02;35;08
Speaker 2
Know I'm addicted. I'm addicted to it. Just having fun because there's not many jobs as good as this. There's no heavy lifting, so I like it.
00;02;35;10 - 00;02;56;21
Speaker 1
So when you talk about your jobs, this was an interesting week for you because, of your many books you've written, one of them, was the great book. Who's your caddy, where you caddied for people from John Daly to Donald Trump and everyone in between. And this weekend you were out at Pebble Beach caddying again. This is part of a new book.
00;02;56;24 - 00;03;15;06
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's called Who's Your Caddy? The Mulligan. And, the my book publisher has always wanted to do a sequel. And so here are 20 years later. I'm doing the sequel. But now. Now I'm 68, and I forgot how hard it is. I mean, you're carrying a spyglass. You're going up and down the hills, and where's my seven iron?
00;03;15;06 - 00;03;37;24
Speaker 2
And you forgot to clean the ball and oh, you didn't put the divot back. Wait a minute. I'm still haven't answered. I assume we got that question answered. And then you're making notes and you're. I must have dropped, I don't know, the towel 12 times. Putter cover, 20. I was just a mess. And the guy I caddy for was Ryan Smith, who owns the Utah Jazz and the Utah Mammoth.
00;03;37;27 - 00;03;54;20
Speaker 2
And I said, you cannot hit me at the beginning. That's the great thing about you. You can take me. I can't get a tip. And at the end he goes, you really didn't deserve a tip. I said, I should do it. I cost you maybe. Two shots aside, he goes through the scratch golfer.
00;03;54;20 - 00;03;56;11
Speaker 1
He's probably pretty easy to caddy for.
00;03;56;15 - 00;04;10;17
Speaker 2
He was really good. What a great story. In fact, he even thought about making a go at, you know, the mini tour to see how he would do. But then he met a guy that was not making it on the mini tours and was beating by for shots. So.
00;04;10;20 - 00;04;11;18
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;04;11;20 - 00;04;18;05
Speaker 1
So, how was it out there, who you're with, who else did you get to play with or caddy with?
00;04;18;07 - 00;04;40;00
Speaker 2
A lot of billionaires, you know, Pebble Beach got rid of the all the celebrity thing. Bill Murray, Jason Bateman, who, by the way, I caddy for for this book. And now they do billionaires. Although Paul Gosar was out there, Ron DeSantis, you know, people, a few, a few celebrities. But the tour guys were the most fun.
00;04;40;00 - 00;05;03;14
Speaker 2
I mean, Tony Fino, is was out with his two days. He's a buddy of Ryan Smith. In fact, Ryan Smith has two houses on 18 and Pebble. Two houses. Like who? Two houses. And they're each 50 million each. But, a bunch of the players were staying in the house and so, you know, I should take but, but, have you guys name a bunch of players?
00;05;03;14 - 00;05;10;12
Speaker 2
Steve Young was in that house, so it was really good. As we say in the business, controlling there was tons of good stories.
00;05;10;14 - 00;05;28;19
Speaker 1
So the original book I mentioned, you know, Trump and, you had Jack Nicklaus, you had David Duval. It was a great read and an interesting ride. So you're doing it again. Have you found the the book to be that different? The game is different or the players are different or what's changed?
00;05;28;21 - 00;05;50;11
Speaker 2
Well, for one thing, I caddied at an all nude golf course. Everyone's naked, I was naked, the caddies have to be naked. You can't even wear shoes. It was in France. It was, that was different. Because when you're a naked caddy, what do you do with the pencil? Where does the extra ball go? There was a lot of problems, man.
00;05;50;18 - 00;06;03;17
Speaker 2
And and, and and the other thing is, it was mostly it was, it was a bunch of a lot of old French people teeing the ball up. And you're behind them. That's stuff Tom you can't unsee.
00;06;03;19 - 00;06;07;25
Speaker 1
Oh, but there's a the sunscreen distributor there must, must do a great job.
00;06;08;00 - 00;06;28;18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh. My God is in the bar. They're naked. And the guys coming up to you and you're say, okay, all right, just bring me a beer. You know, it's. So that was a wild chapter. Caddie for Lee. Lee Trevino, down in Dallas. And he was hilarious. He still can. He hit it really good. I remember we went back to his mansion.
00;06;28;20 - 00;06;47;28
Speaker 2
Oh, he's got a huge house in Dallas, right? Because, you know, he's done great. And I looked at this giant lot. I said, who has to mow that? He goes, I'd like to mow it. You like to mow it? He said, yeah I got a riding mower. And then he told his story that he's out there one day mowing the lawn because he like to do it, listening to music.
00;06;48;00 - 00;07;07;07
Speaker 2
And this rich, white lady pulled up in a Cadillac. Roll down the window. Hey. Hey, son. How much do you get for mowing the lawn? And you're like, well, how much do you get for mowing the lawn? And he goes, oh, this lady lets me sleep with her.
00;07;07;09 - 00;07;07;26
Speaker 4
Well, what can I.
00;07;07;26 - 00;07;25;01
Speaker 2
Get for the worst golfer in America? I asked the USGA to find me the guy with the highest handicap who plays at least once a week. They found me a guy in Florida, Jacksonville, Florida, who plays twice a week and just handicap is 58.
00;07;25;03 - 00;07;27;05
Speaker 4
So they know what they hate.
00;07;27;09 - 00;07;31;01
Speaker 2
So, you know, I mean, what's your handicap? You're probably like a nine or something.
00;07;31;03 - 00;07;31;28
Speaker 1
Yeah. Somewhere around.
00;07;31;28 - 00;07;32;06
Speaker 4
There.
00;07;32;09 - 00;07;53;09
Speaker 2
Yeah. So you would have to give this guy 50, 49 shots. And I mean Scottie Scheffler would have to give him plus he's a plus nine. So you have to give six years anyway. So I carry for him. And he was just such a nice guy. Yeah. Played strictly by the rules. You he would not pick up a putt.
00;07;53;11 - 00;08;09;17
Speaker 2
Unlike Trump you know Trump's give me give me zone is the size of a Winnebago. This guy here could be right here putting for 12. I'm not Luther. This guy's name was Luther. I'll give you that. Oh, no, sir, no. And he put it out and go back to his little cart. Right. All the statistics in the cart.
00;08;09;24 - 00;08;24;12
Speaker 2
First day from the senior days. He shot 131. Next day I took him to a harder course from the Blues, and he shot 178. And honestly, caddying for Guy. You want to shoot yourself?
00;08;24;15 - 00;08;30;08
Speaker 1
Yeah. I was going to say it's hard to play with. And you also have to he or somebody has to do the math. I mean, sometimes it's hard.
00;08;30;10 - 00;08;33;17
Speaker 4
Oh yeah. He's doing the ball where you make eight eight.
00;08;33;17 - 00;08;49;14
Speaker 2
He made three straight thirteen's one day, three straight 13th. I'm like, was there anything in your little book about lessons? It was, yes. Well, one time my friends bought me a package of ten lessons and I said, what happened? Because I got worse.
00;08;49;16 - 00;08;50;13
Speaker 4
Or.
00;08;50;15 - 00;08;53;01
Speaker 1
Worse is worse available.
00;08;53;03 - 00;08;54;11
Speaker 4
I didn't know you could get that.
00;08;54;14 - 00;09;16;23
Speaker 2
I've never heard of a handicap that high. But, you know, he never fails to put in his score. Unlike Trump, who I got it for. And if you've ever gone to his chin deal in Florida, right. You know, Donald Trump, Florida, you can look at it. The 20 scores that he keeps to make his three handicap have go go back 20 years.
00;09;16;25 - 00;09;42;05
Speaker 2
Like he'll be like, oh, I shot 73 a winged foot from the blues. And he monkeys with the slope. You know the slope when you put in your score he just makes up like slope. 160 and par 74. He's he's messes with the numbers. So the number goes down down, down. Meanwhile, if you were keeping track of his score, which I do and did when I played with him, yeah he's lucky to break 90.
00;09;42;05 - 00;10;01;23
Speaker 2
He's an 8885 kind of guy. And I'm like, there's no way you're three. I'll play you for my house because I'm a Senate. Oh no, no, I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm going to take some mulligans. I mean, those are allowed. And sometimes, you know, something happens, the wind comes up. I can take that that I, I realized he had this.
00;10;01;23 - 00;10;14;07
Speaker 2
His caddy had just these four inch green tees. The four can he was tee it up in the rough. They were taking it up in the wild. They were throwing it out of bunkers because he's terrible chipper.
00;10;14;09 - 00;10;14;18
Speaker 4
In fact.
00;10;14;24 - 00;10;29;09
Speaker 2
One day he took it. One day he took a give me chip in. I never seen this well played. I'm never bet for score. I know I couldn't close for par. He's laying off the green in par and he goes that makes this good. He picked up a chip.
00;10;29;11 - 00;10;30;29
Speaker 4
What did you just did you.
00;10;30;29 - 00;10;47;00
Speaker 2
Just take a give me chip in. He goes oh I make those all the time. Like no, you chip like Edward Scissorhands. You have a short game like Stevie Wonder. You're terrible. By then he's gone in his cart, which is rigged up to go 50, and you just can't keep up.
00;10;47;03 - 00;10;52;00
Speaker 1
Doesn't everyone rigged their handicap to be too high so they win the bets? Unless you're. It's.
00;10;52;01 - 00;11;10;04
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's called a sand bagger. What he is is he's got a cocktail handicap. He can tell people he's the three. He's actually a 13. But when you own the course you get to win all the tournaments. So now he's up to like 40 club championships and I'm like, this is so bullshit. Because he told me how he does it.
00;11;10;06 - 00;11;21;03
Speaker 2
He said whenever he buys a new course, he plays the first club championship with him and Melania and he goes, Melania is not going to get that good, so I'm always going to win that. That's how I won 40.
00;11;21;05 - 00;11;25;22
Speaker 1
So he was in the first book, the first book. Now how old is it? 25 years.
00;11;25;29 - 00;11;26;27
Speaker 4
Maybe. Yeah, that's.
00;11;26;29 - 00;11;28;07
Speaker 2
25 years now.
00;11;28;09 - 00;11;30;28
Speaker 1
So when's this one going to come out? When? When's the mulligan coming?
00;11;30;28 - 00;11;40;10
Speaker 2
You know, I keep getting, delayed by Curry, Steph Curry and Charles Barkley. So we push it back to Father's Day next year at 27.
00;11;40;13 - 00;11;42;21
Speaker 1
So they're going to be in it as well.
00;11;42;24 - 00;11;51;20
Speaker 2
So I think they're going to be in it as well. It was a lot of really fascinating jobs I carried at the, at the National Amputee Championships.
00;11;51;27 - 00;11;52;13
Speaker 4
Oh wow.
00;11;52;13 - 00;12;13;22
Speaker 2
And every guy in there is an every woman is missing. You know, they're missing a limb. But they're pretty good, and they're having fun. And, you sort of forget who they are. And I remember on the 13th hole, my, one of these guys hits a good shot, but it's not going to get there. And I go get legs, get legs.
00;12;13;24 - 00;12;16;29
Speaker 2
And the guy turns to me, says, read the room, man.
00;12;17;01 - 00;12;20;16
Speaker 4
Read the room.
00;12;20;18 - 00;12;22;14
Speaker 4
Oh, hey,
00;12;22;16 - 00;12;25;04
Speaker 1
As as you've written many books, but,
00;12;25;06 - 00;12;27;05
Speaker 4
You really did leave.
00;12;27;05 - 00;12;45;26
Speaker 1
Sports writing on, you know, you were so famous from everything. I knew you when you were still at the Boulder Camera before your path took you to Sports Illustrated's back page and beyond. But you have generally, because I see you pop up in the Washington Post or what used to be the Washington Post, right?
00;12;45;28 - 00;12;52;12
Speaker 1
But are you really done sports writing like columns, for anyone? Or will you write when you when you find. Well, the.
00;12;52;12 - 00;13;13;02
Speaker 2
Washington Post lets me write humor pieces on any subject. And, I'm writing, you know, I wrote one movie that was made called Leatherheads. I got a TV thing, I think, coming out, the guys who made Ted Lasso. So I'm kind of writing sports, but I'm mostly just doing whatever the hell I want. We bought a, you know, we're living in Italy a lot.
00;13;13;02 - 00;13;19;04
Speaker 2
We live in Sedona, Arizona, live here at the beach in LA. I play the piano, see the world.
00;13;19;06 - 00;13;21;12
Speaker 4
I just yeah, I mean.
00;13;21;15 - 00;13;25;16
Speaker 2
It's just that it was just this one corner of life. You ever feel that way, Tom?
00;13;25;19 - 00;13;25;29
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;13;26;00 - 00;13;43;08
Speaker 2
The sports is just this tiny little corner. And the people in it. Like, I remember seeing Pete Rose at an airport once, and he goes, where are you going? I'm going to Italy. He goes, oh, I never go to Europe. I'll never go to Europe. Like, why? It's fantastic. He goes, they don't play baseball.
00;13;43;10 - 00;13;44;29
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
00;13;44;29 - 00;13;48;23
Speaker 2
Maybe it's time to expand your little tiny world.
00;13;48;26 - 00;14;07;05
Speaker 1
Well, I was, I was thinking of all the places you work because you're a big piece of, You grew up in Boulder, worked at the camera, the post. You go to LA times, Sports Illustrated, ESPN the Magazine, etc. and and the Washington Post. And I look at it now and every place you went is is dead.
00;14;07;08 - 00;14;08;00
Speaker 1
You killed.
00;14;08;00 - 00;14;08;23
Speaker 4
All.
00;14;08;27 - 00;14;15;15
Speaker 1
Of these once proud establishments. You've run through them top to bottom.
00;14;15;18 - 00;14;19;14
Speaker 2
Well, I'm funny with this guy. Ted McGinley is an actor for sure.
00;14;19;19 - 00;14;21;02
Speaker 4
And,
00;14;21;04 - 00;14;39;27
Speaker 2
Every year and we kid him that he got to Happy Days show died the next year, got the Love Boat show. Died the next year, got two married, two children. Show died the next year. So I just did a speaking gig near his house and he goes, can I come? I'm like, man, I don't want to take the chance to.
00;14;40;00 - 00;14;41;22
Speaker 2
I don't want to take a chance.
00;14;41;25 - 00;14;44;09
Speaker 1
So he's like, you're like a coach killer. We used to.
00;14;44;11 - 00;15;03;20
Speaker 2
I am, I'm, I'm the actual shark jumped the shark. Well, to be fair, you know, it was kind of like the Sports Illustrated coverage. Like, we would put, like, Michael Jordan on the cover. I don't think he's the record 59 times or something. And then something bad would happen to him there. Like coverage ends. Well, which cover killed him?
00;15;03;20 - 00;15;21;21
Speaker 2
You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean Muhammad Ali or something. You go to jail. Well, it's not our fault. So it's not my fault that a ten year, 15 years after I left outside, it became like a pamphlet. ESPN. I was like ESPN TV for ten years. It still seems to be doing okay.
00;15;21;23 - 00;15;46;28
Speaker 1
Well, maybe they got lucky. There's always. There's outliers for everything. Right? So. So tell me about this. Because when I got here, I moved here in 82, and you were already establishing yourself as a great sports writer, but you were with the Boulder Camera, your hometown paper. Did you grow up wanting to be a sports writer? Was that the single career choice that young Rick really wanted to take?
00;15;47;00 - 00;16;16;26
Speaker 2
Absolutely. In fact, one of our buddies from Boulder High School died recently. And, Seth Pollack, is it? He died in a bike rack there by Pebble Beach. But anyway, so we've been kind of reminiscing, and, one of these guys reminded me in seventh grade, I got a Sports Illustrated writer named Bob Autumn. I wrote him and asked for permission to to, produce on stage for the Sky High school play something he'd written or the junior high school play.
00;16;16;29 - 00;16;39;00
Speaker 2
And I got a letter back, and I was so thrilled. And so I sent my, my, my goal in life service to be a writer at Sports Illustrated. And I remember writing that in my says. And you actually ended up doing it. So that's pretty I remember I had, I went to a writing contest in first grade and Sacred Heart of Jesus, a national writing contest.
00;16;39;00 - 00;16;57;10
Speaker 2
I thought I had, and they put it up in the bank window. We used to walk home through that Boulder Mall back to our house from Sacred Heart, and it was on the win. I was so proud of that. In first grade and years later, I'm telling that story to speech. And my brother was there and he goes, you know, dad works at that bank, right?
00;16;57;12 - 00;17;02;05
Speaker 2
There was no big honor being in the goddamn bank. Went there like, oh.
00;17;02;07 - 00;17;03;07
Speaker 4
Thanks.
00;17;03;09 - 00;17;04;17
Speaker 1
You didn't have to mention that.
00;17;04;18 - 00;17;06;20
Speaker 4
Yeah. So, but you know.
00;17;06;21 - 00;17;26;01
Speaker 2
It. So. But Boulder, I was at the Boulder camera when I was still in college, you know? Right. And one of my first gigs was the Denver Nuggets and Doug Moe. Yeah. And Doug Moe was like, I couldn't believe, is this how sports is going to be? Because he remember that office? He'd sit there, he put his feet up.
00;17;26;03 - 00;17;28;04
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think he would drink a beer, but I can't remember.
00;17;28;05 - 00;17;33;14
Speaker 1
Right after each game there'd be one Coors Light. He'd. Yes, be in chopper's desk, more or less. Yeah.
00;17;33;14 - 00;17;51;07
Speaker 2
It's just chopper sitting there. And remember, chopper wore the same pants and same shirt every single day. And I'm like, chopper, how do you get those? Those clean? It was just a terrible pair of checked pants. How do you clean those every day in time for that? Oh, no. I have ten pair of these pants and 20, but it yeah, I remember that.
00;17;51;09 - 00;17;51;28
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;17;52;00 - 00;18;07;28
Speaker 2
It was always down a chopper. It was so funny. You have his feet up drinking his beer and you could just sit in a chair and he can hide anything. Nothing was off the record. Was like yeah, he a stiff. Oh we got it all. Who was talking? Like I think someone said, well, how come you don't call and he plays.
00;18;08;05 - 00;18;31;21
Speaker 2
Plays, plays your first steps on. He plays. We run the ball. I don't ever want to see what he triplet. And it was so fun to cover. I covered the incredible 186 184 game triple overtime, I think I think, Freeman had something like, I don't know, 60 points. David Thompson had 70 or something. Oh, it was just such a free wheeling type.
00;18;31;27 - 00;18;55;03
Speaker 2
And Doug Moe always looked like he had the flu. He, he always looked terrible and like he didn't care. That's what I loved about him. He did not have a single drop of ego. He just wanted to have fun. His hair be crazy, his shirt be Miss Buttons is. That's shoes to be untied. And I just thought, oh, my God, this is the best beat I'll ever have.
00;18;55;05 - 00;19;09;16
Speaker 1
But so you, you covered the nuggets when you went to up the road to Denver, you were brought in to do football, though football was still king and the Broncos were the beat. And you went over and did that for a while in the Dan Reeves John Elway era.
00;19;09;18 - 00;19;30;16
Speaker 2
Yeah. And Dan Reeves is about as opposite of Doug. Mike, you can get right. He call me in the morning just yelling at me. I mean, it was just Edgar Kaiser calling you. It was just so miserable. It was just a terrible beat. And I think. TJ Simons you remember him for the Rocky Mountain News and I never yeah, I could never beat that guy.
00;19;30;20 - 00;19;47;23
Speaker 2
I can't I could never give you a story that would beat him. And years later he said, you know why you never could beat me. You could only tie me for, you know, scoops and stuff. Like what he said. I would wait till you checked into the dorm in Greeley. I'd get the room above you and listen through the vent.
00;19;47;26 - 00;19;48;02
Speaker 4
That's.
00;19;48;03 - 00;19;54;00
Speaker 2
I got a guy T.J. was. I'm like, this is the. I'm. I'm not meant for this life.
00;19;54;02 - 00;20;11;21
Speaker 1
So you end up in LA. But I always think people think of you as the back page of Sports Illustrated. And it's. You know what? We'll talk about media in a little bit. But it was the the back page of Sports Illustrated. People before the internet came around would wait for that thing to hit their door. Right. And you became the first thing a lot of people would read.
00;20;11;21 - 00;20;24;27
Speaker 1
They would look at the cover and read Rick in the back, and it was in a just an exalted place. Yeah, I know you felt pressure when you got it, but you really seemed to embrace it and obviously connected with so many people there.
00;20;24;29 - 00;20;46;08
Speaker 2
Right. Well, well, people a couple of reasons that that was the thing. They'd look at the cover, then they'd go to my thing because it was very short. It was always 800 to 825 words, which is a weird thing to say. Now, when guys can just blather on for 5000 words online. But it was very difficult to be short and interesting.
00;20;46;10 - 00;21;05;09
Speaker 2
And, you know, the thing was, the guy when he gave me the column said, you know, it can't be anything else we're writing about in the magazine, mostly. And it's got to be something new to the country because we don't come out until Thursday. So it's going to be hard. So it was hard to surprise people or make people laugh or get people mad or make people cry.
00;21;05;12 - 00;21;27;07
Speaker 2
And so, you know, each week started like Monday morning, me and my editor, and I'd have 20 ideas and we would pay socks. That's really good. Really good. Try that one. This has been done. That's been done. You'll never you're not good enough for that. Once we get it down to five by Wednesday and then like, oh God, I really feel this one.
00;21;27;10 - 00;21;43;22
Speaker 2
He'd say, go for it. Right? And then you write it and then something would happen of up to the guy you were writing about to change the whole thing. So you have to go back. So it was much harder. Like people say, you get the easiest job, you write 800 words a week, like you don't see the 10,000 I throw out every week.
00;21;43;24 - 00;22;12;13
Speaker 1
I think of it. And, you know, we talk so much these days about how many people in the administration, you know, do these press conferences or, appear before Congress and they perform for the audience of one, the aforementioned Donald Trump, when you did the back page and when you did the subsequent work it in other places, I get the feeling, because of the reverence you held Jim Murray and the great sportswriter for the columnist for the LA times, was he your audience of one you often felt you were writing for?
00;22;12;16 - 00;22;39;14
Speaker 2
You know, the great, the great singer Al Green said, said for his first five years of his career, he tried to sing like that, King Cole. And for the first my first 4 or 5 years, the Canberra Post, maybe the first year, the LA times, my hero was Jim Murray and I was trying I realized I was trying to write like him, and once I realized I had my own style, my own voice, that he just became someone inspired me.
00;22;39;14 - 00;22;57;07
Speaker 2
But I didn't copy him anymore. And that's what I really started to roll. And you feel like, oh, this is me. I can do it. You know, I would worry so much that I wasn't good enough. I got ulcers and finally, through therapy, I just decided I'm good enough and if it's not good enough, I'll do something else.
00;22;57;10 - 00;23;23;23
Speaker 2
And, that's what it really started to work. But yes, Tim Murray, I think he was the greatest sports writer that ever lived. And also he was really humble, like he would come up to just perfect, you know, the third string beat guy for the Rams in Bakersfield would come up. And Murray, I'd give him ten minutes and he put it after he wrote his column, he'd push himself away and he'd always say the same thing, which is, fold him again.
00;23;23;26 - 00;23;29;04
Speaker 2
And then and we'd go drink. And, he was just, he was just a legend.
00;23;29;07 - 00;23;39;14
Speaker 1
You and I are about the same age. I used to like to travel with sports a lot, because it allowed you to go to Pittsburgh and pick up their newspaper and go to their stores and restaurants, and it was different.
00;23;39;16 - 00;23;40;19
Speaker 2
Every day,
00;23;40;21 - 00;23;57;18
Speaker 1
Everything's more homogenized now, and you can connect with anyone. But you didn't really get to read Jim Murray as a young man. So we're there right now in Denver that you did or columnist that that you did, like here or national ones that you emulated or at least imagined you could be like.
00;23;57;21 - 00;24;19;12
Speaker 2
Well, the thing is, when I got to the camera at such a young age, I would read the wires and there was Jim Byrne and there was Edwin Pope and Blackie Sherrod. And, you know, they would get Dan Jenkins and C and Frank deford. And so, yeah, I mean, obviously I loved Woody, as a young guy, I loved the Dick Carter.
00;24;19;15 - 00;24;41;29
Speaker 2
But there wasn't a lot of great sports writing for a while there in Denver. It was became it was very, very, you know, the four ply squad and the Great Bambino and all that. And then when Buddy Martin and Tom Patterson came in and started hiring guys from around the country and younger people, it it really got much better.
00;24;42;02 - 00;24;55;18
Speaker 2
But, Yeah, but can you imagine that, Tom going to town, picking up the newspaper and read him, you know, the guy in Cleveland or the guy in Houston, like, I don't get to see this guy. But now everybody's got the phone.
00;24;55;20 - 00;24;56;04
Speaker 4
Yeah, it's.
00;24;56;04 - 00;25;16;24
Speaker 2
Just a it's a million people with a million opinions. And they all think they're really good writers. And but it's very hard now to make money at it. And so therefore it's really hard to craft your stuff. Like I try to help young writers, but they're like, man, I got 20 minutes to write my lead down. I got to go to my podcast.
00;25;17;00 - 00;25;40;09
Speaker 2
I got to tweet the whole game, I got an Insta. Then I got to do something for my YouTube channel and we didn't. If you just had so much more time, I mean, they give you. And that's why before I became the columnist on the back, they give you two months to go. I mean, I spent two months hanging around John Daly and really, you know, got details about him, like he would punches reflection in the mirror.
00;25;40;12 - 00;26;04;25
Speaker 2
So his hands were full of glass shards. And sometimes you'd have to pull out of tournaments because they become infected. But it was just you would always try to get the it's in sportswriting. In those days, the the coin of the realm was nuggets. Great interesting information. And that really is what made a piece good. Even if it's 800 words now, I don't think they really have the time to get that stuff.
00;26;04;27 - 00;26;22;23
Speaker 1
It's funny because I was I want to talk to you about where we are and where we're going with with media, but, talking about Sports Illustrated, the other weekly that you'd get would be The Sporting News. And in there you could read what Joe Falls was saying in Detroit, or Bob Gallagher Arts Band, or these guys from all around the country.
00;26;22;25 - 00;26;32;11
Speaker 1
And, you know, it was just it was just a way to to feel outside of your own zip code. What what's going on in the world. Right. Guys were good.
00;26;32;11 - 00;26;33;09
Speaker 4
At. But there was.
00;26;33;11 - 00;26;47;04
Speaker 2
Just some so many bad Joe Falls. I remember one time his he would do a notes column like every other day. One time just leave was try try iced coffee for a taste treat like that's what you got.
00;26;47;06 - 00;26;50;14
Speaker 1
You got to feel like you got to feel as though Dick young was another cost.
00;26;50;20 - 00;26;52;23
Speaker 2
Kickstart was really good.
00;26;52;25 - 00;26;54;12
Speaker 4
Jimmy can look it up. Yeah.
00;26;54;13 - 00;27;08;11
Speaker 2
And Mike Lupica, I mean, he still writes like an angel. I don't know how some of these guys. I mean, Jim Murray died at 77. I. I can't imagine staying in that little corner of the world till I'm 77. But he was happy.
00;27;08;14 - 00;27;24;03
Speaker 1
It's also it's just a different time now. But let's talk about media now because you alluded to it with, I think the demand on like I left nine news about a year ago. And you know, what they ask reporters to do now is do the story and then do four versions of it immediately.
00;27;24;06 - 00;27;27;05
Speaker 2
Run your own write. You run your own video and sound. Right?
00;27;27;07 - 00;27;43;08
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it's getting, you know, far more complicated. But then again, you also now have every citizen with a phone is to some extent a journalist. So it's, it's yeah, I would say it's not better, but I don't know if it's not better. It's just completely different than it used.
00;27;43;08 - 00;28;03;06
Speaker 2
I remember being on a plane and I just broke in the story that, Michael Jordan was going back to the Washington, going to the Washington Wizards. He was going to make $1 million all he wanted. And, he he would start training in a month. Well, you know, Jordan and Donald Dell all said I was high. What was I smoking?
00;28;03;13 - 00;28;23;19
Speaker 2
Which I didn't think was relevant to the question, but anyway, so I'm getting creamed. Some guy comes up to me on the plane. So you think you think Jordan's going to the Wizards and I'm like, yeah, I know he's randomizer. No, no, he's not going to the Wizards. He's going to this and then he's going to become general.
00;28;23;21 - 00;28;45;10
Speaker 2
And I'm like, sir, what do you do for a living? He goes, I'm a dentist. I mean, I talk to 100 people for this story and you're a dentist. But that's what was happening because because of the internet, everybody thought they were an expert. It's like once a week in my mail, I get, hey, I'm. I've written a book for you, but will you read it?
00;28;45;12 - 00;28;55;14
Speaker 2
Help me with it, whatever. And then I'm like, sorry, I can't I to write my own books. And then a month later, I published it. You published a book in a month?
00;28;55;15 - 00;28;55;25
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;28;55;26 - 00;29;04;03
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, you know, it's online. It's self-published. Okay, well, you're not quite. You're not quite a published author, but thank you.
00;29;04;05 - 00;29;08;27
Speaker 1
I am an author. Thank you very much.
00;29;08;29 - 00;29;32;12
Speaker 1
So what do you think happens here? Because when we watched, the Washington Post sports department gets sacked a few weeks ago. I think, you know, it's it's the most it's the most crisp, sharp example of what we've been seeing happen for years now. But it happened in a, in a sudden, sad moment that I, I mean, I know you have a bunch of friends who worked or worked there now.
00;29;32;14 - 00;29;45;12
Speaker 2
Oh my God, it was such a great section. Thomas Boswell, Sally Jenkins I mean, there was all there be work was so good buyers on horse racing and now they have no sports section. I mean.
00;29;45;16 - 00;29;46;06
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;29;46;09 - 00;30;06;14
Speaker 2
People love the sports section, right? I mean, that's where it's not not everything is, you know, war and cancer. It's fun. And now that's gone. The New York Times has no sports section papers folding left and right. LA times, my book when I was there, the only times we had 50 writers. Now they have five and five writers.
00;30;06;16 - 00;30;14;26
Speaker 2
Now you might say, okay, but now there's all these great podcasts. And that's true. But some of these, some of these podcasts suck.
00;30;14;28 - 00;30;15;16
Speaker 4
Hey, wait a minute.
00;30;15;21 - 00;30;20;06
Speaker 2
Just be talk. You know, it's okay to talk to people without having a podcast.
00;30;20;08 - 00;30;20;29
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;30;21;02 - 00;30;32;03
Speaker 2
I like this one. But I mean, I see so many bits. I got a podcast. What is it? Well, it's me talking to my brother about sports. And what do you guys do? Well, you know, we're in the roofing industry.
00;30;32;05 - 00;30;33;09
Speaker 4
Yeah. So we.
00;30;33;09 - 00;30;35;09
Speaker 2
I don't see how does my dog better gear.
00;30;35;09 - 00;30;39;08
Speaker 1
Up in the catbird seat? As Red Barber would say, we're up here in the roof. We can see.
00;30;39;08 - 00;30;39;29
Speaker 4
It. Oh.
00;30;40;02 - 00;31;02;15
Speaker 2
The thing about the thing about that Washington Post, I guess. My wife, I work now, we're on a boat in the BVI last year, and this incredible, most magnificent sailboat comes up and it's three Mars and it's gleaming wood. And it must be the size of three football fields. I never seen anything like it. And, the guy says that's Jeff Bezos.
00;31;02;16 - 00;31;04;07
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.
00;31;04;09 - 00;31;27;12
Speaker 2
And I said, that's a sailboat. He said yeah it's the biggest sailboat in the world. It cost $500 million. And he's got another boat that follows it that he doesn't want to look at because he doesn't think it's pretty. And that costs $600 million. That's 1.1 billion on boats. He paid 250 million for the Washington Post. I don't know the sports section.
00;31;27;12 - 00;31;52;11
Speaker 2
What's that going to cost him, or a year, $1 million? And I just think it's just so selfish. It's run so contrary to what he's doing. The Washington Post, well, so contrary to democracy because you can't have a voter who knows what he's talking about. If the papers just give up and he's just giving up because it's not making the money, take it, take a loss, write it.
00;31;52;11 - 00;31;53;10
Speaker 4
Off.
00;31;53;13 - 00;32;22;03
Speaker 1
Well and he can afford it. As we like to say. But that's always tough when you try to spend someone else's money. When I was a kid, I grew up in New York City, and there are still 5 or 6 newspapers every day. Being was a great newspaper town, but I also remember you'd see papers left behind on the bus, and you'd pick up the newspaper and you'd read someone else's paper, or when you walk by the newsstands that were every 2 or 3 blocks, you'd give a nickel or dime to pick up a paper, and it was nothing.
00;32;22;03 - 00;32;37;12
Speaker 1
But now when they ask you online for money for the same stuff you used to pay for a street, people like, oh wait, no way, this is I. Why should I pay for this and that? Once they let that cart out of the barn where they started, some papers were free and some papers, well.
00;32;37;15 - 00;32;39;19
Speaker 2
That's what that's what killed us.
00;32;39;19 - 00;32;41;04
Speaker 4
I yeah.
00;32;41;06 - 00;32;59;29
Speaker 2
The internet came along and they said they started just putting our stuff online. And a bunch of us writers went to the I mean, like, if they're going to get it online, they're not going to buy us anymore. No, it'll be fine. And then they realize too late to put up a paywall. Paywall? Oh, we used to get it for free, so screw you.
00;33;00;04 - 00;33;18;26
Speaker 2
And it was gone and there was no bringing it back. I mean, it's, you know, video killed the radio star. I guess that's how the world works. And I'm. I'm okay with that. It was a great time. But when I explain to people what it was like, I mean, we saw you flew first class. You go to LA to frickin San Francisco, you flew first class.
00;33;18;28 - 00;33;40;28
Speaker 2
You could spend $10,000 a year just entertaining coaches, players, other writers trying to get stuff. They would give you months to write a piece. That was maybe you know, 3000 words long. It's just it's just a whole. I mean, you'd walk into a locker room as an essay writer and, and players be like, oh, I hope he wants to talks to me.
00;33;41;03 - 00;33;41;22
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00;33;41;24 - 00;33;52;16
Speaker 2
Now you walk in and they're like, they're on their phone and they have their own web page, and they have their own Twitter feed, and they write their own stuff for their YouTube channel. They really don't need you anymore.
00;33;52;18 - 00;33;58;25
Speaker 1
Now, you're I thought would kill this. I though was when they put you in the swimsuit edition, but that was it.
00;33;58;28 - 00;34;00;28
Speaker 4
Yeah, that was bad, by the way.
00;34;01;00 - 00;34;04;27
Speaker 2
They now do six. I think they do six swimsuit issues a year.
00;34;05;00 - 00;34;12;07
Speaker 1
Sure. It's like the Packers sweep. Why not run it if they can't stop it? And you know, if their swimsuit edition is always going to sell.
00;34;12;13 - 00;34;17;03
Speaker 2
But I will say those was the greatest assignments of my life covering that thing.
00;34;17;06 - 00;34;18;06
Speaker 4
Oh I mean, they.
00;34;18;06 - 00;34;40;00
Speaker 2
Didn't need an article, but they always had one. And I would do it. And it was you were just it was just ridiculous. I mean, it was some of the most beautiful women on earth. And and you have to go, go in the morning watching get photographed in the evening. And there was this guy we call Francois the butt duster because he put on the body makeup and he was a gay French guy.
00;34;40;02 - 00;34;45;22
Speaker 2
And then you'd always get beers with him because you'd be like, hey, what was? First of all, he wasn't gay. It wasn't French.
00;34;45;24 - 00;34;46;12
Speaker 4
He was a.
00;34;46;14 - 00;34;58;27
Speaker 2
Frankie from Bergen Park, new Jersey. Mean, we'd be like, look, what is Heidi Klum look like? Naked? Because he would. Oh, my God, he'd chew through a wall. I mean, this guy had the greatest gig in history, friends.
00;34;58;28 - 00;35;00;21
Speaker 1
So, that's.
00;35;00;21 - 00;35;02;00
Speaker 2
What the book does, too.
00;35;02;03 - 00;35;18;16
Speaker 1
So you talk about, all the these places you travel and the places you live in Sedona, in Italy and Southern California, but not Boulder. Do you ever do you ever think about coming back? I mean, if you're gonna have a house in every country or every few states, why not have one here?
00;35;18;18 - 00;35;20;24
Speaker 2
My son lives there, so I go all the time.
00;35;20;26 - 00;35;21;11
Speaker 4
Oh, good.
00;35;21;14 - 00;35;36;29
Speaker 2
In fact, he lives right by the old prairie, prairie dog little League fields where I play baseball, and not very remarkably well, but. And so. And it's so fun to see. Boulder. I think Boulder's beautiful. That it was. You ever go up there? Yeah.
00;35;37;02 - 00;35;41;27
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah, I love it. I mean, with obviously if you live here, you get there whenever you can.
00;35;41;27 - 00;35;43;12
Speaker 4
But hopefully you think.
00;35;43;15 - 00;35;46;27
Speaker 2
How's the thing going? But no nine news and a nice quiet.
00;35;46;29 - 00;35;53;04
Speaker 1
Yeah. It was time for me. I just, you know, you and I are pretty much the same age, and I don't know how.
00;35;53;04 - 00;35;55;00
Speaker 2
Come I look so much older.
00;35;55;02 - 00;36;02;19
Speaker 1
Well, because you've done more work. I just used to sit there and have Francois, the butt dusters cousin, put on my makeup and fix my hair.
00;36;02;19 - 00;36;07;01
Speaker 4
Yeah, I guess you do the news. It's just ridiculous. This is the.
00;36;07;01 - 00;36;31;05
Speaker 1
Podcasting thing is fun for me because, like, this show, as opposed to news casting, is I'm just talking with people I choose to talk to about stuff I find interesting and I hope it's interesting to other people, and I hope it's fun for people to do. But I think the number one reason for me to to wrap it up, doing the news was if you're going to do the news, you have to watch the news all the time.
00;36;31;05 - 00;36;32;00
Speaker 1
You have to.
00;36;32;03 - 00;36;32;11
Speaker 4
Phone.
00;36;32;14 - 00;36;34;11
Speaker 1
Addicts. And.
00;36;34;14 - 00;36;56;25
Speaker 1
It had become something where it was psychologically debilitating to stay, connect 100% connected to the news. So, because it's so depressing, depressing and just repetitive. It's a drumbeat and it's, you know, even if, yeah, there's enough depressant, depressing things in there to.
00;36;56;27 - 00;37;18;06
Speaker 2
Well, you know, that's that's the same thing with the, it was like, I call it sports Groundhog Year because, you know, you do the you do the Super Bowl, you do the bowl, the college games in January, the Super Bowl, February, then August. And, you know, it just it was just in basketball. And then the Father's Day, you go us open it and it was the same thing every year.
00;37;18;12 - 00;37;33;23
Speaker 2
And pretty soon I'd find myself, oh, once again, I'm writing about the superstar trying to make a comeback or the kid on the end of the bench who's never gets to play, or how mad I have about this. And then I realize, man, it is a drumbeat. I'm ready to do something else.
00;37;33;25 - 00;37;51;03
Speaker 1
So like when I talk to, I do the weekly show After the Horn with Woody and Ron. Yeah, Ron Polo retired before I did, and he missed it immediately. I think he, like me, went from sports to news and then missed sports as soon as he got a news. I didn't miss it as much. But then when he left.
00;37;51;09 - 00;38;10;00
Speaker 1
So he's doing this podcast with us now and he finds he really did want an outlet, that he would watch the news and read the news and say, I want to say something. But he had no outlet to say it. Do you find yourself with that, even though that drumbeat maybe became a little bit redundant, repetitive, that there are things that happen?
00;38;10;00 - 00;38;12;24
Speaker 1
You go, hey, I got to fire off about this.
00;38;12;26 - 00;38;33;23
Speaker 2
Right? Well, the Washington Post will let me get mad about things I see. Yeah. But also I've become this guy because I did this book, Commander in Chief, in which I detailed how Donald Trump cheats at all things golf, scoring, winning club championships that he never even entered, like he's in North Korea and he wins one in Florida.
00;38;33;25 - 00;38;56;04
Speaker 2
He wins a two day tournament. When he was at a state funeral the first day. And, how he suddenly forgets how many he's won, and now it's up to 36. And, so I've become this clearinghouse. He'll say, oh, I'm proud of won that something? Something. Oh, club championship without any strokes against the best guys in the club, the young guys.
00;38;56;06 - 00;39;12;10
Speaker 2
And of course, everyone turns to me. And so I put it on Twitter. Well, let me just tell you, it's not possible. What he's saying he did. And, you have friends there at the club, and every time he hits in the rough, they throw it out, and he owns the course. And the guy who actually won.
00;39;12;10 - 00;39;33;08
Speaker 2
So go ahead, because you don't want to get kicked out of the course. So, so in that way, you kind of, I kind of have an outlet for something that I know really well, which is that he is not a club champion and he's never won a club championship. Every time he's been on TV playing in a celebrity tournament, he's never finished in the top half of celebrities.
00;39;33;10 - 00;39;57;13
Speaker 2
So and he's never run. He's hardly ever broke in 90. So, that's sort of something. But you know, I find it's like I love playing piano. I like learning to speak Italian. I like, you know, seeing the world. And if I can just stop worrying about everything going on in the world, that's depressing, that I. I'm fine.
00;39;57;15 - 00;40;04;10
Speaker 2
But I would like to ask you, does how does Woody not get sick of it? Does he ever talk about that?
00;40;04;13 - 00;40;30;23
Speaker 1
Well, Woody is coming up on 80 years old, and he still he still wants to talk about it. He still has opinions about everything. And, you know, I think he like you, you know, everyone who's been in and around media struggles with watching the newspaper industry expire, we've seen, you know, people grew up, my my parents grew up listening to the radio, and radio has become something other altogether.
00;40;30;23 - 00;40;50;20
Speaker 1
And then the newspaper was the, you know, the first thing you saw every morning. And it told you how how things went yesterday. And I think TV news changed so much because it used to be if you wanted to see the newscast, you had to sit in front of the TV at 10:00 or at 6:00 because it's not going to wait for you and you're not going to get it elsewhere.
00;40;50;23 - 00;40;59;10
Speaker 1
And so, you know, I think, I think what he's enjoying doing the show with us and, you know, still writing. Of course.
00;40;59;12 - 00;41;07;08
Speaker 2
So tell us, did you hear at all one of the funniest calls I ever read? Number one, NBC tried to do a game with no announcers.
00;41;07;08 - 00;41;09;17
Speaker 4
Yes, and I can't remember that. Maybe. Yeah, I think.
00;41;09;17 - 00;41;11;05
Speaker 2
It was Jets. Somebody.
00;41;11;08 - 00;41;12;25
Speaker 1
Dolphins I think Jets, Dolphins.
00;41;12;25 - 00;41;32;01
Speaker 2
Jets, Dolphins. Right. So the next day in the paper what do you wrote a column with no writer. And it started off ring ring ring ring. And then somebody in the distance was pushed. Hey what's the answer is God dang phone. Is it. And the next guy comes along. What are you? Owes me $20 from that bet.
00;41;32;07 - 00;41;35;22
Speaker 2
Where is it? You know, he did the whole thing. Thought it was genius.
00;41;35;24 - 00;41;53;25
Speaker 1
Well, he's always been. Been creative then been been out there as well. It's been great to get to know him more. You know, getting to sit with him every week. We certainly have a lot of conversations. We did a lengthy show, on Tuesday. And as it ended, we found out Doug Moe had died, and so.
00;41;53;27 - 00;41;55;09
Speaker 4
Oh, my God. Hello.
00;41;55;09 - 00;42;01;21
Speaker 1
And Woody Page and I sat down and decided we were going to do a new show. Another show. It's very emotional.
00;42;01;23 - 00;42;06;12
Speaker 2
Oh. I can't wait to see it. Because, Ron, it was especially tight. You and Ron. Right?
00;42;06;14 - 00;42;14;00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Ron was especially tight with Doug forever, and I got to know him so well, both covering him. And then later I did a radio show with them for two years.
00;42;14;04 - 00;42;15;14
Speaker 4
Oh. That's right.
00;42;15;17 - 00;42;17;02
Speaker 1
And, so has there.
00;42;17;02 - 00;42;21;13
Speaker 2
Ever been a more honest, wide open guy than him?
00;42;21;16 - 00;42;23;25
Speaker 1
No, I, I can't imagine.
00;42;24;02 - 00;42;24;27
Speaker 4
You.
00;42;25;00 - 00;42;34;03
Speaker 1
We talked about this before, but you covered him as a young man. Did you ever later. Like when he, when the nuggets come to LA. I think you're probably at the times by then or. No.
00;42;34;05 - 00;42;53;17
Speaker 2
I don't, I haven't seen them. I don't know, God's got to be 30 years. But he always had something hilarious to say. I remember he'd say like they go to the West finals against La Jolla and he'd start with, we got no shot. Well, we got no shot. I remember that. And they were like, we can't say that.
00;42;53;19 - 00;43;10;02
Speaker 2
Well, we got no shot. We're lucky to get Eric magic. We had Julio Chance. And so then you'd go talk to Pat Riley and he goes he's trying to play us. He's trying to play us. And I said to Pat, I don't think he's trying to play you. This guy is as honest as truthful as anybody you'll ever meet.
00;43;10;04 - 00;43;12;17
Speaker 2
They don't think they got a shot. They're going to play.
00;43;12;20 - 00;43;13;14
Speaker 4
But I mean.
00;43;13;17 - 00;43;16;13
Speaker 2
That's how he was. He was so real.
00;43;16;16 - 00;43;36;28
Speaker 1
I was thinking a lot about Doug in the last couple days. But one was, you know, he really had no enemies. But I remember he really got under Pat Riley skin with that night. Yeah. You know, Pat, Pat also thinks of coaching as this, religious thing where you are the leader of of the world and people. You need to be perfect and everything needs to be.
00;43;37;01 - 00;43;45;21
Speaker 1
And Doug was, let's say, at the other end of the spectrum as far as how important coaching was. So I think I had always kind of looked at Doug kind of funny.
00;43;45;23 - 00;44;07;16
Speaker 2
Well, you know, the typical example for Doug is always says standard fellas, fellas, bronco gang. He never had a play and he did. He wasn't going to like inspiring them. He didn't give a rat's ass about inspiring them. But Pat Riley would do things like, I think it was the before game, won one game of the finals. I can't remember who they were playing.
00;44;07;19 - 00;44;35;01
Speaker 2
And, he had a big bucket of water in the middle of the locker room and he goes, you gotta want this. You gotta want this. Like your next breath. And he stuck his head in the giant bucket of water and he'd been practicing, and he kept his head in the water for something like 2.5 minutes. And guys were starting to freak out, and he poses hella like your next goddamn breath, and they're going to run it out.
00;44;35;03 - 00;44;51;25
Speaker 2
I mean, he is. He was nothing like, oh, but he was he was so into it. It was so complicated for him. And you know, everyone had to read books. And Doug Moe would have never made a play or read read a book in a million years if he was the head coach.
00;44;51;28 - 00;44;56;08
Speaker 1
No, he would have put someone else's head in the water. Probably, but.
00;44;56;11 - 00;44;56;17
Speaker 4
Put.
00;44;56;17 - 00;44;59;05
Speaker 1
Jim Armstrong's head in there or something like that.
00;44;59;08 - 00;45;02;08
Speaker 2
And for God, when he when he cared about Big Jim.
00;45;02;11 - 00;45;07;04
Speaker 1
Well, he up till the end, he'd always say, you know, oh, she thanks me every day.
00;45;07;06 - 00;45;08;10
Speaker 4
When I'm teaching.
00;45;08;12 - 00;45;14;24
Speaker 1
I'm the king of my castle, you know, which is obviously as as it was her nickname untrue. You know.
00;45;14;27 - 00;45;18;00
Speaker 2
Who was the guy he most got on has, like.
00;45;18;03 - 00;45;40;01
Speaker 1
Well, it would it would glide hands. It got a lot of it. Kiki would get a lot of it. I'm trying to think Blair and Danny would get it. He one time. Elson Turner was a great player and a really good guy. Turner. I'm Allison Turner, took a shot. They were cruising past the Mavs. I just remember I was sitting right next to the bench and Elston misses a shot.
00;45;40;01 - 00;45;49;02
Speaker 1
Short jumper. And they were letting a 20 point lead get away. And he misses the jumper Doug calls time and he just kills Elston.
00;45;49;04 - 00;46;16;15
Speaker 1
And Elston makes the mistake because it's over. And the timeouts over which Doug is not coached during the timeout, he's just yelled at Elston. The players go back on the floor. Except for Elston and Elston says. But Doug I and he was basically going to say I got fouled or whatever. Right. And Doug just turns and and now the game's going on and Doug is leaning in and barking and yelling and cursing at Elston, and he's going full throat.
00;46;16;17 - 00;46;21;15
Speaker 1
And there's 9800 people in McNichols arena. Nobody's watching the game.
00;46;21;17 - 00;46;22;27
Speaker 4
They're all, well, wow.
00;46;22;29 - 00;46;41;00
Speaker 1
And they can all hear Doug. And I'm just sitting there. And the thing I always remember is, after the game, Doug was all good. Like he was so wound up during the game, and then, like you said, he'd sit at that desk. He'd have a Coors Light, and then he'd go to dinner with a player or something like that.
00;46;41;00 - 00;46;41;16
Speaker 1
It was all over.
00;46;41;16 - 00;46;58;06
Speaker 2
Oh, I remember that so well, especially as my first one of my first beads. And, you would be like, oh, crap, Mo's going to be so mad. He's not going to give us anything. And he'd be absolute like nothing happened. So there was beer, Riley a stiff. What kind of shirt is that? Oh, you want us to get him?
00;46;58;06 - 00;47;15;14
Speaker 2
Kill who? The guy that made you wear that shirt. Shit like that. He was just so. It was just so fun. It was on the road. He was fun. God, just great team was a heck of a player. Did you forget? Yeah. Three time NBA All-Star.
00;47;15;17 - 00;47;21;18
Speaker 1
He was runner up in the MVP the first year he was in the league. Connie I remember the MVP. He was runner up.
00;47;21;20 - 00;47;36;14
Speaker 2
I remember when he jumped to the NBA. He was like, this league sucks. These guys aren't happy. No one cares about each other. They're not friendly on the road, which is kind of true for a while. Some of those nuggets teams 12 guys, 12 cats. Remember that.
00;47;36;17 - 00;47;52;10
Speaker 1
Well that happens. So I, I have a couple things I want to talk to you about television and movies. Leatherheads was a film you made with George Clooney. Did you enjoy, writing and making a film? Was that something you enjoyed?
00;47;52;13 - 00;48;05;09
Speaker 2
Okay. Writing. It was really fun. And then the rent kicked around Hollywood for 15 years, and the idea was there was. It was based on this guy, Johnny Blood McNally, who?
00;48;05;11 - 00;48;06;12
Speaker 4
Ha, ha.
00;48;06;14 - 00;48;26;29
Speaker 2
The fight before the NFL was formed would play pro on Sunday and college Saturday under a different name. And it was this cool dude with a motorcycle. And he was always he always got the hottest girl. And so we decided to write a movie about that guy who turned out to be played by jock, by a George Clooney.
00;48;27;01 - 00;48;47;17
Speaker 2
And it was fast, and it was kind of what we call the Preston Sturges, you know, pace screwball comedy. And then 15 years into it, he says, I'm doing it. And I'm like, great, this is great, is finally happening. I'm taking it to Italy, and I'm going to I'm going to make some changes like, and it came back and it was.
00;48;47;19 - 00;48;47;21
Speaker 4
A.
00;48;47;25 - 00;49;13;28
Speaker 2
Slow. And him staring into Renee Zellweger, his eyes, and he completely screwed up. The third act made up a dumb thing. And, but he's the nicest guy in the world. And he let me hang around set, and, he was funny, and he was always pulling pranks. I remember one day is all these guys in leather uniforms, and we're shooting football stuff, and he gets there that day and something gone wrong with the cameras.
00;49;13;28 - 00;49;32;27
Speaker 2
But he didn't tell anybody. He goes, all right. And it all you guys. It was like 20 guys in these leather wooly gross football outfits. And he made this whole big mud pit. I what ever you got to run roll through the mud. And then because I need you I want, you need I need you to roll through the mud.
00;49;32;29 - 00;49;46;16
Speaker 2
And they're all thinking, okay, it's I'm doing a mud. See? So they all would run through the mud, their face dropped muddy. It's in their ears and nose. And then when they all get through it, he goes, hey, we're not shooting today.
00;49;46;19 - 00;49;49;00
Speaker 4
What?
00;49;49;02 - 00;49;51;23
Speaker 2
They just completely screwed these guys over.
00;49;51;25 - 00;49;53;23
Speaker 1
It was fun. Fun, fellas.
00;49;53;25 - 00;49;55;08
Speaker 2
It was fun.
00;49;55;10 - 00;49;59;09
Speaker 1
And then you said you have a TV project that may be in the works. I know everything's iffy, and.
00;49;59;15 - 00;50;06;05
Speaker 2
Yeah, Hollywood is just breaks your heart 98% of the time. So I wrote this book called Missing Links about four guys.
00;50;06;07 - 00;50;13;14
Speaker 1
But yeah, I wanted that to be a movie. I because I've, I know possible golf course on Long Island. Right.
00;50;13;16 - 00;50;31;02
Speaker 2
Oh possible. Yeah. This is based around the park in Boston, but yeah. So it's for guys that play the worst course in America. And they make this bet to try to get on the best course in Boston, which happens to be over this 20ft wall that no one is allowed on. You know, it's it's like a gusto or seminar.
00;50;31;05 - 00;50;48;09
Speaker 2
And they make this bet who can be the first guy to play it. And one guy plays it by jumping over at night and playing it. But anyway, they sell each other out and then they realize they completely ruined the great thing they had. And then they met. Then they try to get even with this club. So anyway, it's been sold seven times.
00;50;48;12 - 00;51;14;28
Speaker 2
Seven times for TV shows or movies. And now the seventh time, it's this bought by the guy who did Ted Lasso and he did, scrubs. He does shrinking, and he really loves the book. And so I wrote a TV pilot, and he seemed to like that. Okay. And so he says, okay, any minute it's going to start, we're going to start filming and the checks come in, you know, but it never gets filmed.
00;51;15;00 - 00;51;19;12
Speaker 2
And that's Hollywood in a in a heartbreak, in a heart, in a thumbnail.
00;51;19;14 - 00;51;27;29
Speaker 1
I've been reading all your stuff, but that book was my favorite. Just just a wonderful story and I I'd love to see it. It made into a film so.
00;51;28;00 - 00;51;31;25
Speaker 2
Well, you know. Did you read the sequel? Thanks for nothing.
00;51;31;27 - 00;51;32;09
Speaker 4
Yes.
00;51;32;13 - 00;51;45;28
Speaker 2
Same guys. And it's, it wasn't quite as good, but it was fun. So when you when you sell this book, you sell both books. And I've had more people say that should be a movie. I'm like, could it just be a book? Is it okay? It's a funny book.
00;51;46;01 - 00;52;02;20
Speaker 1
That's true, that's true. Yeah. I always remember, people who write songs and books, back in the early days of music videos, they a lot of people didn't want their song to be made into a video because they didn't want to fix the image. They wanted you to be able to think of the song the way you think of it, as opposed.
00;52;02;21 - 00;52;05;06
Speaker 4
To telling you this or, you know.
00;52;05;06 - 00;52;24;29
Speaker 2
And, when I covered all those tour de France with Lance Armstrong, I would talk to Sheryl Crow and she was dating him, and she said, know it. I said, you know what? You write a song that gets so famous. She goes, but everybody interprets it differently. It's not yours, she says. Once it's out there, people think it's this.
00;52;24;29 - 00;52;49;09
Speaker 2
Like, for instance, born in the USA by Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, it's not a patriotic song. It's it's a song protesting against U.S. and Vietnam and military, but it just became this patriotic thing. And she says it's that's the problem with putting your selling your stuff. It becomes something else that you never intended. And that is that is so true.
00;52;49;09 - 00;53;11;18
Speaker 2
I could write a column about about this ex and I get a hundred letters. You're a right wing asshole. Yeah, from the right. And then I get 100 letters from the left. And it was all people just putting their own spin on it. And so you're just as Charles Barkley always says, you know, people, half the people are going to hate you no matter what.
00;53;11;21 - 00;53;21;11
Speaker 2
And if you change your stance, then the other half are going to hate you. And I really took that to heart when he told me that. And it really made a difference because you can only be yourself.
00;53;21;13 - 00;53;39;29
Speaker 1
It is funny. You know, you say things or you write things. You know, for me, it was more of a verbal thing where you'd say something and people would read you the way they wanted to read you. They would take you the way they wanted to. And that's I always talk about that now because we communicate so much and I, I like it texting and DMs and things like that.
00;53;40;01 - 00;53;53;17
Speaker 1
But all nuance, sarcasm, any sort of tone, you can write a message that's read for different ways from horrible to good for sure. And you got to be very, I guess. Sure, writers are needed to write texts.
00;53;53;20 - 00;54;13;28
Speaker 2
I always thought you were the single best ad libber I ever saw on TV. National, local, whatever. You just you could just do it. And it was so funny and no one could keep up with you, and you just threw up. Throw my hands up like, oh my God, I know you didn't have that ready because something funny just happened on the spur of the moment.
00;54;14;00 - 00;54;22;25
Speaker 2
And I wondered, I mean, the other anchors like that, did people misinterpret that sometimes because it was so fun?
00;54;22;27 - 00;54;40;27
Speaker 1
Well, I had fun doing stuff like that, but I always, it usually if I worked with someone new, they might be a little scared of what I might be saying or doing or double entendre or whatever. I'm doing. It, but I always would then if I was going to work with them for a while, tell him I'll never bury you.
00;54;40;29 - 00;54;42;02
Speaker 1
I'll never.
00;54;42;05 - 00;54;42;15
Speaker 4
Leave.
00;54;42;15 - 00;54;49;21
Speaker 1
You. I'm not going to make you look bad if I did to dumb or sarcastic or weird to say it's on me.
00;54;49;24 - 00;54;52;02
Speaker 2
Did you ever try improv comedy?
00;54;52;05 - 00;54;53;18
Speaker 1
No, I, oh.
00;54;53;18 - 00;54;54;12
Speaker 2
You would have killed it.
00;54;54;12 - 00;55;05;03
Speaker 1
That it? No, it reminds me of golf. Like I love golf, but I don't think I'd want to work at golf. I, I caddied for Webbie. You know, Mark Webb, my good buddy. I went out on tour.
00;55;05;03 - 00;55;07;22
Speaker 2
Yes, I remember that.
00;55;07;24 - 00;55;25;04
Speaker 1
And when you do that, you'll know this from from your caddying. But if you're on tour, you know, you watch on TV and every six footer you think they're going to make, and you watch him make it and they make it, they make it. Then you go out in another group and you watch guys roll six footers. When your guy has a six footer, all you think of is, man, that's hard.
00;55;25;11 - 00;55;31;26
Speaker 1
It's slippery. That's that's it's got a little right, left, right or right to left out. Yeah. Well when it.
00;55;31;28 - 00;55;49;15
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. What time is it. My point was my point in writing the Trump book because people say who cares that he cheats on golf? Okay. He cheats, he cheats to win club championships. He says, you know, his courses are number one in the world when they're not. And he doesn't pay guys and he doesn't pay architects. Like I played golf with Tom Doak yesterday.
00;55;49;15 - 00;56;10;21
Speaker 2
The architect says he won't work for Trump because he doesn't pay guys, so who cares? And I say because golf is like bicycle shorts. It reveals a lot about a man and and what he does, what a guy does when you're carrying for him for four hours or 5 hours or 6 hours at Pebble Beach, you really get to know the guy.
00;56;10;24 - 00;56;25;27
Speaker 2
The guy caddie for Tommy Aaron at the Masters, and he was like three of the biggest jerks you've ever met rolled into one. And he's like, yeah, people are saying, go get him taught me, and he'll turn to me and go, how do I go down to their insurance company and say, go get him, Fred.
00;56;25;29 - 00;56;26;15
Speaker 4
I think they.
00;56;26;15 - 00;56;50;17
Speaker 2
Just are being supportive. But he was just a jerk. Whereas a guy like Ryan Smith or Lee Trevino, Nicklaus, there were there were always still themselves and still very nice. And they knew that sometimes you get a bad break and it goes out of bounds. Sometimes it hits the tree and comes right back in the in the middle of the fairway, and they're going to ride with the punches and still be nice.
00;56;50;19 - 00;56;56;24
Speaker 2
And so when a billionaire is still nice that's that's pretty cool.
00;56;56;26 - 00;57;09;17
Speaker 1
Well it's yeah you find out a lot about who's comfortable in their own skin. But. Right I was getting at the idea of doing comedy was like, I like playing golf. And I don't think would be a great profession.
00;57;09;24 - 00;57;10;14
Speaker 4
I see what you me.
00;57;10;16 - 00;57;28;10
Speaker 1
Comedy I like, you know, having a good time, being funny when I can be. Yeah. But actually making it a job, you know, like Sam Adams did, or someone, you know, who's who's transition. Becoming a comic. That's a lot of work. And to be, do you know, to succeed or fail up on stage, that's a big difference.
00;57;28;15 - 00;57;48;13
Speaker 2
I do a lot of speaking after dinner, speaking, corporate speaking, which is really, really easy because they know you're coming. It's free. They're drunk, it's they're going to laugh and they want to be it's going to be an hour of laughs. Right. But I tried standup for a while and I was opening for Sinbad and they're like.
00;57;48;16 - 00;57;49;24
Speaker 4
Who are you?
00;57;49;26 - 00;57;57;24
Speaker 2
Make me laugh. I don't know, you. I think I'm leaving. And it was just so hard. Yeah. So I know exactly what you're saying.
00;57;57;26 - 00;58;17;15
Speaker 1
So not interested in doing any of that. So I want to I want to finish. We only have a little a couple more minutes. I want to ask you about golf, because golf seems like it's trying to be in the post live or the live 2.0 stage where the PGA tour is seeing guys return. Boy, they lost a lot of momentum.
00;58;17;17 - 00;58;31;28
Speaker 1
In the live era, I think I think the game, you know, all the non majors really seem to take a hit from from what happened. Do you think golf is going to or at least the PGA tour if you will is going to bounce back.
00;58;32;01 - 00;58;53;02
Speaker 2
Yeah I think it absolutely will. But I think this era is going to be kind of like the World War Two era when Byron Nelson what everything because everybody was aware of war and he never outlived that reputation and afraid that's what it's going to happen to Scottie Scheffler because he wins all these tournaments. I mean he's fantastic player.
00;58;53;04 - 00;59;19;03
Speaker 2
But he there was times no cap cut. No Patrick Reed no wrong. No DeChambeau. And you can't discount what happened there. So yes he's a great player. He has a chance to be Jack Nicklaus Rory has a chance to be Gary Player. But until Liv finally folds and we get all these guys back together all the time, it's much, much watered down.
00;59;19;05 - 00;59;42;01
Speaker 2
For instance, Pebble Beach, those guys that were playing badly, they didn't care. Yeah, there was no cut. Yeah, yeah. So so the, the it's really lifted the money for the PGA tour guys. And God knows all these guys that took that bloody Saudi money got new jets. Great. I hope you can look yourself in the mirror. I always hated it.
00;59;42;04 - 01;00;05;05
Speaker 2
I never thought they'd give a damn about golf. They just wanted to look good to their American investors and people like Trump. And I think pretty soon they'll go, well, I've spent 6 billion. We've had 6 billion in losses. It's time to end this. And I think they will end it. I don't know when, but, it's it was just such a money grab and I just hated to see it.
01;00;05;08 - 01;00;19;03
Speaker 2
I mean, Claire McDowell, going to live and saying I'm doing it. You know, I'm doing it too, for the benefit of the game of golf. Really do. There's only nine golf courses in Saudi Arabia. I don't give a shit about golf.
01;00;19;05 - 01;00;20;02
Speaker 4
You know what I mean?
01;00;20;07 - 01;00;25;22
Speaker 2
So yeah, that's that's what you wanted was another mansion and Sea Island. You know.
01;00;25;25 - 01;00;37;06
Speaker 1
It. Well, there there is that you know, it's funny. You always think, you know, I wouldn't do it. And then they start adding commas to the check, and you're kind of going, well, maybe I, you know, I might be able to I would.
01;00;37;08 - 01;00;55;04
Speaker 2
I would not do it. I would do a lot for not very much money, but I would not take Saudi money anyway. They, they chop the heads off journalists. They jail protesters, they kill gay people. They suppress women. It's just life's too short to be in bed with those guys.
01;00;55;07 - 01;01;13;28
Speaker 1
So you've lived. I'll be polite here, but let's say you've you've carved for yourself a privileged life. You're a very good golfer. You've played golf all over the world. But if they told you you've only got a few days to play your last rounds of golf because you've you've played them all. Where would be your your go to golf courses?
01;01;14;04 - 01;01;27;25
Speaker 2
Pebble. Pebble beach is my favorite course I've ever seen. I think it's the most beautiful golf course in the world. It might be the most beautiful place in the world with up without a golf course. It's got the greatest hole number eight I've ever seen.
01;01;27;28 - 01;01;50;17
Speaker 2
It's, So what else? I love Castle Pines. I belong there for a while, and it's just fantastic. I love Cypress Point. I mean, Augusta's fine. You know, I wouldn't if you said, you know, you could only pick five. I wouldn't pick that one I love. Yeah, I love it in Scotland. North Berwick. I love a place called Old Hat in Ireland.
01;01;50;17 - 01;02;11;07
Speaker 2
If you can ever go there, it'll blow your mind. Yeah. So I've played, I think I've played 70 of the top 100 in the world. Right. And it's just it's just such a such a delight to discover these, these Port Royal, County Down in Northern Ireland, there's just it's just so fun.
01;02;11;09 - 01;02;12;21
Speaker 4
And just to,
01;02;12;23 - 01;02;30;10
Speaker 2
It's got so much better. The, the, the, the ever since Covid, golf has gotten better. The courses are better. There's more fun. There's there's better equipment. Young guys are into it. Young women are into it. And that's maybe the only, only good thing that came out of Covid.
01;02;30;13 - 01;02;46;02
Speaker 1
Well, hopefully we'll get to play. I just was going to tell you, I, I was listening to the broadcast. It was early in the week on Pebble, so it's Thursday or Friday, and a couple of the guys were chatting about Cypress Point, and I loved it because the guys on the broadcast were saying, you really got to go play it.
01;02;46;02 - 01;02;58;08
Speaker 1
And they were talking to the viewers like, you know, like, go call the pro shop and make a time over at Cypress Point. I was like, really? You just think everybody's going to wander on to Cypress Point, just where's the sign up sheet? Because, yeah.
01;02;58;13 - 01;02;59;09
Speaker 2
You know that.
01;02;59;11 - 01;03;00;14
Speaker 4
Idea that.
01;03;00;14 - 01;03;15;12
Speaker 2
Happens at Castle Pines? People come up and they're wearing jeans. They got two bags from King Soopers with beer and sandwiches and like, you know, how do we we'll wait, you know, you can fit us in. Okay, I'll ask Jack Vickers. He'll be out in a minute.
01;03;15;14 - 01;03;22;13
Speaker 1
Rick, I hope we get to play together sometime soon. I really appreciate you taking a few minutes and getting a chance to catch up with you again today.
01;03;22;20 - 01;03;24;16
Speaker 2
Where are you playing?
01;03;24;18 - 01;03;29;06
Speaker 1
Today I'm. I'm playing most of my golf up at Frost Creek, up in Eagle of Colorado.
01;03;29;07 - 01;03;30;10
Speaker 2
Oh, and how's that?
01;03;30;15 - 01;03;40;19
Speaker 1
That's nice. It's terrific at a Tom Weiskopf course. And if you're in if you're in Colorado, please reach out to me and I'll see that you can play with some of the good players you're on.
01;03;40;19 - 01;03;41;18
Speaker 2
Thank you.
01;03;41;20 - 01;03;43;20
Speaker 1
All right, buddy. Thank you Rick.
01;03;43;22 - 01;03;46;24
Speaker 2
Host sorry.
01;03;46;26 - 01;03;48;15
Speaker 1
Certainly fun to catch up with.
01;03;48;15 - 01;03;48;27
Speaker 4
Rick.
01;03;48;27 - 01;03;52;02
Speaker 1
Riley. He's had such a career and done so many things,
01;03;52;04 - 01;04;07;13
Speaker 1
and it was great for him to take some time and share his thoughts with us about just about everything. And, of course, Colorado's own Rick Riley. Hopefully we'll see him back here sometime this summer. If you want to weigh in or suggest anything, you can always reach us here at the other Tom green show.
01;04;07;13 - 01;04;17;28
Speaker 1
Just send it down here to Gorilla Sportsnet. But that's going to wrap it up for this week. Hopefully, hopefully we'll see you right back here again next week for the other Tom green show.