Tom Green welcomes Hall of Famer Dan Issel for a wide-ranging conversation that spans Issel’s legendary career, the history of the Denver Nuggets, and the evolution of the NBA. They begin with the Nuggets’ recent injury-ravaged road wins and connect that resilience to Denver’s famous 8-seed upset of Seattle in the playoffs, which Issel famously coached. From there, Issel reflects on his early days at Kentucky, the ABA years, playing alongside icons like David Thompson and Alex English, and what made those Nuggets teams special. The discussion turns to Nikola Jokić’s greatness, how today’s game compares to earlier eras, and why this current Nuggets roster still has championship potential. Along the way, Issel shares unforgettable stories from basketball history, Denver sports ownership changes, and the moments that defined his career.
In this episode of The Other Tom Green Show, Tom Green sits down with Nuggets legend and Hall of Famer Dan Issel for an in-depth look at basketball across generations. They revisit Denver’s improbable playoff upset of the Seattle SuperSonics, Issel’s path from Kentucky to the ABA and NBA, and the personalities that shaped the Nuggets, including David Thompson, Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, and Calvin Natt. Issel offers candid insight into Denver’s past ownership turmoil, the challenges of coaching, and what today’s players face in a faster, more demanding league. The conversation closes with a thoughtful breakdown of Nikola Jokić’s unique brilliance and why, if healthy, this year’s Nuggets still have everything it takes to contend for another title.
00:00:01:04 - 00:00:17:07
Tom Green
Hi there. Welcome back to another edition of the other Tom green Show. It's been quite a week for the Denver Nuggets. They've gone through all sorts of injuries. And yet found a way to win in Philadelphia, with seven of their top nine players sitting on the sidelines watching in street clothes.
00:00:17:08 - 00:00:39:04
Tom Green
It was one of the more memorable regular season game the nuggets have ever played. They then go up to Boston and do the same thing, and while they got a couple of their players back, it was quite a win and quite a way to wrap up a road trip without Nikola Jokic. So the nuggets now come home after this trip and they've got a little momentum thanks to embracing the role of being an underdog.
00:00:39:07 - 00:00:59:17
Tom Green
But when you think of the nuggets as underdogs you got to go back a little more than 30 years when they pulled off something the NBA had never seen. They were the number eight seed in the Western Conference playoffs, and they shocked George Karl's Seattle SuperSonics, winning that series and moving on to see Utah in the playoffs. It was a stunning upset.
00:00:59:20 - 00:01:15:01
Tom Green
We're going to talk a lot about it with the man who orchestrated that. The head coach of the nuggets back then, the Hall of Famer Dennis.
00:01:15:04 - 00:01:28:07
Tom Green
So Dennis is here to, talk about the nuggets life. Basketball. It's great to see. I should always tell people, you and I spent a year together in a small room.
00:01:28:09 - 00:01:30:29
Dan Issel
A very small room. Four hours a day.
00:01:31:00 - 00:01:47:10
Tom Green
We did talk radio, and then I. All this things I've done in my career, my talk radio career was my favorite because I spent time with you and Doug Moe. And, you know, the time you spent on the air is one thing. It's the time when the mics are off that you're just sitting around, you know, chatting, that it's so memorable.
00:01:47:11 - 00:02:05:21
Dan Issel
Yeah, it was, it was one of the better jobs that I had to do. Yeah, it's. Yeah, I mean, four hours seems like a long time, but it flew by it. Yeah, four hours just like that. And it was it was a lot of fun. And mistakenly, I left that job to go back to the.
00:02:05:23 - 00:02:24:16
Tom Green
Me too. I screwed up and went back into television. We should have done that one forever. So let's, I always remember, when we sat there and chatted, you reminded me of Doug in many ways, but in one way, you guys would rather talk about baseball than anything else. Yeah, well, you could do horse racing as well, but that wasn't going to come up on a talk radio show.
00:02:24:19 - 00:02:29:07
Tom Green
But with Doug, it was always his Brooklyn Dodgers from back when. For you, it still is the Chicago Cubs.
00:02:29:07 - 00:02:58:03
Dan Issel
Yeah, absolutely. You know, your your first love is the one that always stays. Yeah. And my first love in when I was in the sixth grade in Batavia, Illinois, I fell in love because remember, the Cubs had no lights at Wrigley, right. And so every every home game was an afternoon game. And I can't tell you how many times I skipped school in the afternoon to go home and watch the Cubs on, on WGN.
00:02:58:03 - 00:03:07:27
Dan Issel
And so, yeah, it's just, that's I mean, you know, I love the nuggets. I love you, K, but the Chicago Cubs are my first love.
00:03:07:28 - 00:03:09:08
Tom Green
Yeah. You never got to play for them.
00:03:09:13 - 00:03:31:20
Dan Issel
No, no. But you know what? Growing up, Tommy Ernie Banks was my hero. Sure. And and in our little league, you had numbers one through 15. And so the big kid always got number 15. But I talked some fat kid on our team and had taken 15 so I could take 14, which was Ernie's number.
00:03:31:26 - 00:03:45:19
Tom Green
Batavia. You know, Illinois is a big state. Batavia is close to Chicago, but at times probably is a million miles away. Back in the day, when you talk about in the 1960s, it was probably a long way away. But it's only about 40 miles west of town. Right.
00:03:45:20 - 00:04:12:01
Dan Issel
Exactly. But it it, it was kind of an urban area up to Batavia. Right. The Fox River Valley and then and then west of there was all agriculture. So you're right. It was it was only 40 miles. You could get to Chicago, downtown Chicago in less than an hour. But it was a long way away as far as culture and things like that or concern.
00:04:12:04 - 00:04:32:03
Tom Green
Talking to you as a as a basketball hall of Famer. And of course, I was around to see you play. You weren't a great player until midway through high school when you suddenly started to grow and surge. It was that was that also something internal, where your desire to be a great player suddenly came on at that age?
00:04:32:03 - 00:04:38:00
Dan Issel
You know, I grew up on a farm in central Missouri, and I think that's where till when?
00:04:38:00 - 00:04:39:15
Tom Green
How old were you then?
00:04:39:17 - 00:05:02:29
Dan Issel
From until the time I was in fifth grade. Okay. And so I think that's where my work ethic developed. That'll do it. And, we were I was fortunate that before my junior year, Batavia hired a new basketball coach. And he basically made me into a basketball player. When I was a freshman. I wasn't good enough to make the fresh, soft team.
00:05:02:29 - 00:05:21:28
Dan Issel
When I was a sophomore, I wasn't good enough to make junior varsity. But when I was a junior, I was good enough to make the varsity. So, Don Vander Schneck was his name. And that, I think with his hiring in the summer before my junior year is where, you know, the basketball really became important.
00:05:21:29 - 00:05:24:29
Tom Green
Did you know you were going to be six foot nine, six foot ten?
00:05:24:29 - 00:05:50:10
Dan Issel
No, no. You know, we, we had a PA announcer for our games, and my height would increase depending on how many scouts there were. And I remember one night, one night, there were 8 or 10 college scouts in the gym, and he announced me as 611. Well, but, I never came close to 611.
00:05:50:10 - 00:06:04:20
Tom Green
But absolutely stretching the truth. And in high school, I always like the story of the fact that one of your teammates was the guy who ended up quarterbacking in a Super Bowl, Kenny Anderson. Yeah. And his brother Dean was probably the better basketball player, the two of them.
00:06:04:20 - 00:06:28:15
Dan Issel
But yeah. Yeah, Dean was Dean was a fabulous athlete. He was in our high school yearbook. He was voted most athletic. But, yeah, I mean, our our backyards butted up against each other. And I've known Kenny since I was in the sixth grade, and he was in the fifth grade. That's how long we've known each other, and I think.
00:06:28:18 - 00:06:39:09
Dan Issel
And I'm, I'll admit up front, Tommy, I'm very biased, but I think Kenny Anderson is the best NFL football player that isn't in the Hall of Fame at Canton.
00:06:39:09 - 00:06:54:07
Tom Green
It's tough. Well, the Bengals you know you've seen it with the nuggets. The Broncos have experienced this. Well there's certain teams if you're not in the Chicago New York Pittsburgh you know in an NFL. And if you're a Bengal it's a little harder to get in the Hall of Fame. But boy you know he was a terrific player.
00:06:54:07 - 00:07:11:26
Tom Green
You know everyone knew who Kenny Anderson was when they were playing him because he was he was a hard guy to handle. You end up making the decision that would really alter your life going to Kentucky. But you almost went. I saw that you had one point committed to go to Wisconsin, and then Kentucky came along late and was able to scoop you up.
00:07:11:26 - 00:07:39:28
Dan Issel
Yeah, it Kentucky. My parents wanted me to go to northwestern, right down the road. Yeah. And it was close to home. I think they were really taken by how much a four year scholarship was worth at northwestern at that time. Sure. And, and I wanted to go to Wisconsin, for stupid reasons. Like, they had a class in water skiing, and I was I was really into water skiing at that time.
00:07:40:01 - 00:08:02:27
Dan Issel
But, so I, I signed a Big ten letter to go to Wisconsin, and John Erickson, who was coach there at that time, actually came to my high school graduation. And Kentucky wanted a couple of other players, ahead of me and, they chose to go elsewhere. One went to the University of Dayton. George janky.
00:08:02:27 - 00:08:26:26
Dan Issel
At that time, Dayton had a really nice option. Joe Bergmann, from Iowa, I think went to, went to Creighton. But anyway, when those two signed elsewhere, then Kentucky really upped, their recruitment of me. And so it was really, a, a compromise between Wisconsin and Northwestern that I went to. I went to Kentucky.
00:08:27:01 - 00:08:40:15
Tom Green
Hard to imagine you not going to Kentucky. I mean, I just think of you are Kentucky basketball and Kentucky basketball is you I mean, it is. Yeah. I whenever we talk, we end up talking about what the cats are doing. Yeah.
00:08:40:15 - 00:08:58:00
Dan Issel
You know, well, I was I was very blessed that, that I went there and played for Adolph Rupp, and got the exposure that playing at Kentucky brings. Also met a cute little cheerleader that I've been married to for 107 years. And,
00:08:58:02 - 00:09:00:28
Tom Green
So it would be a record. It might be a record.
00:09:01:00 - 00:09:07:02
Dan Issel
So. So, yeah, it was, it wound up being a great choice.
00:09:07:09 - 00:09:24:21
Tom Green
It's funny, because I was thinking you're still the all time leading scorer and the all time leading rebounder at the University of Kentucky, and I can't see any way those records will be broken. No, because anyone who's any good is only going to play about 30 games at the top, you know, of their career at college basketball. And.
00:09:24:21 - 00:09:48:27
Dan Issel
Yeah. Well, I mean, you have to realize I, I graduated 55 years ago and if they haven't broken down now, they they probably. But you're absolutely right. Anybody you know, I, I got to play their three years. I mean, it never occurred to me that was about the time that, that players were starting to go to the ABA early, right?
00:09:49:00 - 00:10:00:19
Dan Issel
Julius Erving, George McGinnis, George Gervin, all those are pretty good crowds. Yeah, yeah, but it never occurred to me to leave Kentucky. I mean, I got to play there three years and it was a great experience.
00:10:00:19 - 00:10:15:29
Tom Green
Without a three point line, which you would have been a guy who would have enjoyed the current three point line. That's, you know, what, a 20 footer. I mean, you made a living shooting 20 footers. It's funny, I was looking do you know how many three pointers you made as a pro?
00:10:16:01 - 00:10:16:19
Dan Issel
Not very.
00:10:16:19 - 00:10:17:27
Tom Green
Many. It's like 30.
00:10:17:29 - 00:10:18:12
Dan Issel
Yeah.
00:10:18:12 - 00:10:39:05
Tom Green
It's like to put you I think you're 14th on the all time NBA, ABA scoring list. And all the other guys on that list have three point shots in their arsenal. And you you did play one. The three point line existed of course, in the ABA but also in the NBA. But it was a deeper shot. It was more of a home run type.
00:10:39:05 - 00:11:02:29
Dan Issel
And Tommy the basketball wasn't as reliant on the three point shot at that time. I mean, it was it was something it was there. The stat I like to throw out because now, I mean, you know, if it's not a dunk shot, it's a three point shot. I played in the highest scoring NBA game ever, was a triple overtime at McNichols arena.
00:11:02:29 - 00:11:03:21
Tom Green
With the piston and.
00:11:03:21 - 00:11:09:00
Dan Issel
The Pistons and the Pistons beat us, I think it was 186 to 184.
00:11:09:00 - 00:11:10:04
Tom Green
Yep, that's exactly right.
00:11:10:04 - 00:11:15:19
Dan Issel
I think that's right. The you know how many three point shots were taken in that game.
00:11:15:26 - 00:11:18:05
Tom Green
Just a handful probably right there for.
00:11:18:05 - 00:11:31:10
Dan Issel
Each each team 186 to 180 for each team took to 23. shots and made one. There were two two made three pointers in that game.
00:11:31:13 - 00:11:56:04
Tom Green
So it's you're at the University of Kentucky. You were setting records. The team, though, is going through an interesting transition. The Adolph Rupp years were coming to a close. I know you you always respected Coach Rupp, but he had just come off that famous loss to UTEp, the All Black starting five. Yeah. Adolph Rupp and Kentucky and the Southeastern Conference were still painted as being segregated.
00:11:56:04 - 00:11:59:11
Tom Green
And they were right up until your sophomore year, I believe.
00:11:59:13 - 00:12:22:28
Dan Issel
Yeah. The first African-American. Now we had at Kentucky, we had a few African American football players. Right. But we'd never had any. While I was while I was playing there. And the first the first African American basketball player now say, was Perry Wallace at Vanderbilt, who was, a contemporary of.
00:12:22:28 - 00:12:33:12
Tom Green
Mine. You had to play against him. I mean, you were you guys were both pivot players back back in that era, and you played against him as freshman two back before you guys were able to have you went to Vanderbilt freshman team.
00:12:33:12 - 00:12:33:25
Dan Issel
Yeah yeah.
00:12:33:26 - 00:12:49:05
Tom Green
Yeah. And watching that transition happen I imagine you it must look different looking back through the lens of history, maybe a little more surprising that it that it took as long as it did or that it continued to take so long to, to change into what the game is now.
00:12:49:05 - 00:13:13:28
Dan Issel
And that was completely new to me because, I had African-American teammates at Batavia. My senior year, Mike Brown and, and Mike graves were both starters on our, on our team, African, African-American. And so, you know, to play in an all white league like the SEC, I tell you where it really smacked me in the face.
00:13:14:00 - 00:13:43:23
Dan Issel
I used to we'd we'd have a pregame meal and then we'd, you know, go lay down and rest for a while before the game started. And I always like to take a little walk. And I'm in Oxford, Mississippi. This is 1968, Oxford, Mississippi, and a typical southern town. They've got the courthouse in the middle of the square and the streets around it, and in front of the courthouse were two drinking fountains.
00:13:43:25 - 00:13:49:25
Dan Issel
One had a sign white, one had a sign colored in 1968.
00:13:49:25 - 00:14:14:19
Tom Green
Not a historical piece. This was that's how it was expected to be used. And so when you played against Perry, and when later Tom Payne would join you as a teammate, the first black player to play, for Kentucky basketball, you probably heard I know you're busy playing, but you probably heard some of what they had to endure when they would go into places and play.
00:14:14:21 - 00:14:37:23
Dan Issel
God bless Perry Wallace. I every, every black player that plays in the SEC should get down on his knees and thank Perry Wallace because what he went through time to be the first black player in the SEC basketball, the incredible Mississippi or Mississippi State. One of those two. They put a skunk under the bunk, under his bench.
00:14:37:25 - 00:14:55:07
Dan Issel
And just what he had to endure. Of course he was. He was a great man. That was the only way you could take it. He wound up being a a federal judge in Washington, DC. But what Perry had to endure, no human being should have to go through that one thing.
00:14:55:07 - 00:15:20:15
Tom Green
You had to endure throughout playing at Kentucky was playing against Pete Maravich, that I, as a young boy in New York, I didn't see a lot of college basketball. I grew up in New York City. But one Saturday afternoon, CBS national television shows, LSU, hosting Kentucky. And I couldn't take my eyes off it. And you were playing in that game, and you had, I believe, 51.
00:15:20:15 - 00:15:23:13
Tom Green
And we're not the top scorer in the game.
00:15:23:15 - 00:15:47:25
Dan Issel
Well, I Tommy, I tell people that my senior year I was the second leading scorer in the nation and I lost the scoring championship by ten points a game, a game I had. I averaged 34 points a game my senior year and Pete averaged 44 points. Now again, no. Three point.
00:15:47:25 - 00:15:56:02
Tom Green
Line. No. And but you guys would win those games. Pete would of course be the magnetic focus people. You had to watch him. You couldn't take your eyes off.
00:15:56:02 - 00:16:17:10
Dan Issel
No, I say, I tell people to this day, the greatest passer and ball handler I've ever seen was Pete Maravich. He wasn't he wasn't a great shooter. He scored a lot of points. Volume. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He took a lot of shots. But, as far as passing and ball handling, nobody comes close.
00:16:17:12 - 00:16:29:02
Tom Green
I remember his death impact. Did you, you know, as it should, it. But for you, it was a contemporary. He was very young. I think he was only 40. Yeah, when he died. And, I remember for you that that hit hard.
00:16:29:08 - 00:17:01:10
Dan Issel
It, I, I can't say I was good friends with Pete, but we were certainly because he went to the NBA out of college, and I went to the ABA. But we had a relationship, and I remember, quite vividly, we were together for the, 1960, 68 Olympic trials. And I spent a week, ironically, my roommate at the Olympic trials was Rick Adelman.
00:17:01:14 - 00:17:03:06
Dan Issel
Oh, okay.
00:17:03:08 - 00:17:05:25
Tom Green
The nuggets head coach, his dad. Great coach himself.
00:17:05:25 - 00:17:24:05
Dan Issel
Exactly. Yeah, but I spent a lot of time with Pete. And, when we played, you know, we would go out the night before when we were in college and stuff like that, but, yeah, I mean, you know, to to to go at age 40, that's way too young.
00:17:24:07 - 00:17:32:20
Tom Green
When you came out of college, you were drafted, I think, in the eighth round in the NBA. Is that because they knew your destiny that you were going to play in Kentucky?
00:17:32:20 - 00:17:42:23
Dan Issel
I had already signed a contract with the Kentucky already? Yeah. When they had I mean, I, I think I would have gone a little higher. And then I was a little surprised.
00:17:42:25 - 00:17:46:22
Tom Green
But of course the the NBA scouting was different then.
00:17:46:24 - 00:17:51:15
Tom Green
Doug used to always say they'd call Dean Smith and say, who do you like? Who's not in that was you see here.
00:17:51:22 - 00:18:18:20
Dan Issel
And if you look at that time period, we either took somebody from North Carolina or took somebody who had a good game against North Carolina. That was that was our complete I remember we had the fifth pick in the draft. Yeah. And it we took a guy by the name of James Ray James Ray, and Mike Pratt, who was my teammate at Kentucky and with the Colonels, was the coach at the time at UNC Charlotte.
00:18:18:22 - 00:18:34:05
Dan Issel
And he called me up and he said, what are you guys doing? He said, he's not the he's not the fifth best player in our conference. And, and and he unfortunately he turned out to be right. Mike Pratt was right.
00:18:34:07 - 00:18:51:15
Tom Green
You went into the ABA and I think the ABA, I look at it romantically again, being in New York, I was exposed to to those great nets teams and I would see doctor J and Larry Keenan and John Williamson and Paul and Millie. I mean, they're just a lot of great players, but you'd see the other ones come through as well.
00:18:51:17 - 00:19:08:29
Tom Green
But you went into the ABA, led the league in scoring your first year. I mean, did you think this is easy? I mean, no, really, it's just like all these guys are pretty good players. I thought there's some. But how many Hall of Famers came out of that first year of the ABA?
00:19:08:29 - 00:19:40:16
Dan Issel
There were a few, yeah. No, it was, my year was the first year that the ABA really started to compete for the top players. Right. And, the consensus All-Americans my senior year here, were, a Bob Lanier. So he, Mayor Pete Maravich and, Calvin Murphy, who all went to the NBA, you know, and then, Charlie Scott, Rick Mount and me who went to the ABA.
00:19:40:23 - 00:19:54:00
Dan Issel
And then the following year we got Artis Gilmore, Julius Erving, and George McGinnis. And, you know, that's that's when the NBA really started taking notice of what the ABA was doing.
00:19:54:02 - 00:20:10:21
Tom Green
How much fun was the ABA and how much of that is just romantic? Like when I read Terry Pluto's book Loose Balls and when I, you know, I wasn't on the flight through the lightning and Piedmont Airlines trying to get to Raleigh or wherever auditorium arena you were playing.
00:20:10:22 - 00:20:35:12
Dan Issel
Was, there was a flight that we took one time from Louisville to Greensboro, North Carolina, and, on a Piedmont. Piedmont. And Greensboro was the fifth stop of the day. It's like a bus. Everybody just pulled up. And that's why that's why today, Tommy, when they tell me, I mean, these guys fly charter. Yeah. They stay at five star hotels.
00:20:35:14 - 00:20:45:09
Dan Issel
You know, they don't even have to pick up their suitcase. They pay somebody to take the suitcase from the from the airplane to the hotel hotel room. And they need load management, that's why.
00:20:45:16 - 00:20:53:03
Tom Green
Well, I want to ask you a little about load management a little bit later on, but. So that was the ABA fun. Was it work?
00:20:53:03 - 00:21:16:17
Dan Issel
It was. No, it was great. Yeah, it was great. And then like you say I mean you forget about those five stop Piedmont flights and stuff like that. You just remember the relationship. I mean, I played with some great guys here in Denver and, you know, talk to them occasionally. But my to two of my best friends in the world are Louis Dampier and artist Gilmore, who were my teammates in in Louisville.
00:21:16:17 - 00:21:39:13
Dan Issel
So, no, it was it was great fun. You know, we had we basically had no players association. So the ABA did whatever they wanted to. But, you know, it was a lot of fun. We, and we were fortunate we played with one of the solid franchises in the league. We didn't have to worry about our paychecks bouncing.
00:21:39:15 - 00:21:55:19
Dan Issel
And, we had, I want to say that the five years I played with the Colonels, we had the best team in the league, probably at least three out of those five years, but only won one championship.
00:21:55:19 - 00:22:09:13
Tom Green
Who did win a championship, though? That that had to be sweet, because I was looking at it in that era. I mean, the the the players and the coaches, it would be sporadic, but once you get down to the playoffs, it was loaded. Yeah. The playoffs were tough.
00:22:09:13 - 00:22:09:25
Dan Issel
Yeah.
00:22:09:27 - 00:22:20:06
Tom Green
Seven game series against good teams, good coaches. When you, left Kentucky though, the Colonels. Was that heartbreaking for you? I mean, you were Mister Kentucky.
00:22:20:06 - 00:22:21:10
Dan Issel
Absolutely.
00:22:21:12 - 00:22:22:13
Tom Green
How did that go down?
00:22:22:15 - 00:22:35:15
Dan Issel
I didn't I didn't think we had won the championship. And John Wayne Brown, who helped Colonel Sanders start Kentucky Fried Chicken and married Phyllis George and became the governor of Kentucky, who's.
00:22:35:15 - 00:22:36:05
Tom Green
Doing pretty good.
00:22:36:05 - 00:22:59:20
Dan Issel
Yeah. No, he he was okay. He he we still lost money. The team still lost money. And so he decided he was going to sell an asset to make up for the loss of the championship. And so really, I mean, he could have gotten something for Louis, but the two assets that were the brought in the most money was either me or Ardis.
00:22:59:22 - 00:23:04:21
Dan Issel
And, I don't know why, but he chose me instead. Instead of artists.
00:23:04:25 - 00:23:12:16
Tom Green
You learn about horse trading, then, you know. You mean, all of a sudden you, instead of being nicknamed the horse, you're being traded just like, you know, an asset that's tough.
00:23:12:21 - 00:23:16:27
Dan Issel
And so the that the the.
00:23:16:29 - 00:23:23:13
Dan Issel
The Memphis Thames. Right, had moved to Baltimore. Dave the Butcher was a commissioner.
00:23:23:14 - 00:23:24:09
Tom Green
This is off season.
00:23:24:09 - 00:23:50:14
Dan Issel
Yeah. And he was just trying to keep the ABA afloat. So he basically gave this franchise to two rock star promoters in Baltimore. And so I went I went to Baltimore. Sherry Sheridan was about two, two and a half and Sherry and Sheridan and I and a bird, parakeet and a dog went and stayed in a hotel room in Baltimore.
00:23:50:17 - 00:24:13:00
Dan Issel
And I was there for ten days. I knew the franchise was on shaky ground when we went to training camp the first day, and they gave us, training a outfit that had Memphis teams on it. They didn't they didn't even buy new uniforms. And so we were there ten days, and I'm in the hotel. We would come home every night.
00:24:13:00 - 00:24:35:22
Dan Issel
It's it's it's where I learned the meaning of the word commensurate because the, the Baltimore had agreed to, to get us a house in Baltimore commensurate with the house we had in Kentucky. Well, Sherry and I had built our dream home right in Kentucky a year before we got sold. And so, we'd come home every night.
00:24:35:22 - 00:24:59:00
Dan Issel
I'd come home from practice. Jerry had come home from looking at commensurate housing, and we'd cry. And so. So, John, why I get a call from John, why Brown? And John says, if I get you out of Baltimore because he was taking some heat. Yeah. Oh, I bet you were. He said, will you say some nice things about me to the local media?
00:24:59:06 - 00:25:13:00
Dan Issel
I said, John, you get me out of here, I'll say whatever you want me to say. Well, unbeknownst to me, after ten days, he had never received his payment for me, from from the Baltimore clause, and so.
00:25:13:00 - 00:25:14:15
Tom Green
And likely wasn't going to.
00:25:14:15 - 00:25:39:10
Dan Issel
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so, John, why I made a deal with Carl Shire and unfortunately, poor Dave. Rubbish to make to make the deal. Look legit. They traded me to Denver for Dave Roberts, who had to go to Baltimore and close that franchise down. Sorry, Dave, but, but, I, I don't know, I've heard 350.
00:25:39:10 - 00:25:46:24
Dan Issel
I've heard a half a million. I don't know what the figure was, but, that was the money. That was exchanged for me to get to Denver.
00:25:47:01 - 00:26:00:20
Tom Green
I thought of you going from Kentucky to Baltimore. You should have gone to New York for the Triple Crown. You could have gone from Louisville to Pimlico, up to Belmont, out on the island there, Uniondale, where the nets played, you would have been. You'd have been all set for.
00:26:00:20 - 00:26:01:06
Dan Issel
Your.
00:26:01:06 - 00:26:07:08
Tom Green
Horse chasing your horse racing pursuits. So you come to Denver. Do you have any idea what you were getting into? You knew they were a good team.
00:26:07:08 - 00:26:35:19
Dan Issel
Oh, yeah. I mean, they, Denver had, I think, David, David was a rookie, and, Bobby Jones was here. And so no, I knew, you know, and I was very lucky because, a year after that, there was no ABA, there was no Kentucky Colonels. And I was in a great spot right here in Denver playing with a very good basketball team.
00:26:35:19 - 00:26:40:00
Dan Issel
We won the first two years we were in the NBA, we won the Midwest Division.
00:26:40:00 - 00:27:01:13
Tom Green
And the last year of the ABA, the the nuggets were in that that final match up with doctor J. That ended, in six games. So, what did you know about living in Denver and how did Denver become what? I know you at times have tried to move back to Kentucky, and you keep coming back here. Now that Scott and Sheridan live here and all the grandkids are here.
00:27:01:13 - 00:27:11:22
Tom Green
But Denver's kind of become your home. And you. I always look at that in life as guys like you and age. You look back and all the stuff that happened to you. That worked out pretty good.
00:27:11:23 - 00:27:34:00
Dan Issel
Yeah. No, it's great. It's great. We love we love Denver. I mean, we think except for, a couple of years back in Kentucky when we had our horse farm and, a couple of years here recently when I was working, trying to get an NBA expansion team to Louisville, we've been here in, in Denver, and, Denver's become our home.
00:27:34:00 - 00:27:54:06
Dan Issel
It's, you know, it's a it's a great place. I, at one point, we were going back, I was very close friends with Brian Jones, who, I was actually his campaign manager. Okay. And we had the horse farm when he ran for lieutenant governor. The governor and lieutenant governor were separate elections at that time.
00:27:54:09 - 00:28:21:26
Dan Issel
But whoever won the Democratic, you couldn't succeed yourself as governor. So whoever won the lieutenant governorship for the Democratic Party four years later was a lock to be the governor. And so we had come back, to to Denver. And, I was on my way. Brewery was elected governor, and I was going to be the secretary of tourism and, that was all lined up.
00:28:21:26 - 00:28:52:14
Dan Issel
I even went back and looked at my office in the Capitol building. Wow. Yeah, it was sweet. And so we sold our house, and Sherry was having what I like to call the mother of all garage sales. The traffic was so bad, a cop had to come out and direct traffic for the garage sale, and, the the next to the last game I'm doing the TV, and the next to the last game were in Sacramento, and I get a call from Bernie Bickerstaff.
00:28:52:17 - 00:29:15:10
Dan Issel
And Bernie said, you know, Bernie wasn't a very flowery guy. I mean, he got yeah, he got right to the point. He said, have you ever considered coaching? I said coaching who? He said coaching the Denver Nuggets. And I said, no, I've never thought I've never thought about that. He said, when you get home, I want you to come in and we'll talk about it.
00:29:15:13 - 00:29:40:00
Dan Issel
And Bernie really stepped out on a limb. I mean, I, I had zero coaching experience, but he must have liked what he heard me saying on the TV broadcast or something. And I know that he followed West until success as a coach, coming in to, to Washington and, and he hired me as an, as coach of the Denver Nuggets.
00:29:40:03 - 00:30:00:13
Tom Green
I want to get to your coaching, but let's go back to playing because you mentioned David Thompson and I imagine David Thompson for you. There was the David Thompson. It was a thrilling teammate to play with. A guy who could ignite an arena, win games, was an extraordinary talent. And then there was the David that drove your nuts late in his nuggets career.
00:30:00:14 - 00:30:24:06
Dan Issel
Yeah. I tell people, Tom, that if if David hadn't had his problems and I don't know how you how do you justify anything like that, but I remember the the nuggets signed David to a contract making $800,000 a year. Well, that that's peanuts. That doesn't sound.
00:30:24:06 - 00:30:25:06
Tom Green
Like league minimum now.
00:30:25:06 - 00:30:46:12
Dan Issel
Or what exactly. Exactly. No, I don't even think it's a minimum. I think it's more than that. But anyway. But to put it in perspective, the highest paid player in the NBA at that time was Kareem making 350. Oh amazing. Yeah. So David's contract and we would get of course there were no, you know security guards or TSA or anything.
00:30:46:19 - 00:31:01:06
Dan Issel
We get off the come up the ramp at a visiting city, there'd be 4 or 5 cameras out there wanting to know. I mean, and so David just went into a shell, and I think that's how because, you know, David wasn't a real outgoing.
00:31:01:06 - 00:31:01:15
Tom Green
No, he was a.
00:31:01:15 - 00:31:02:17
Dan Issel
Shy.
00:31:02:20 - 00:31:03:11
Tom Green
Kind of a country.
00:31:03:11 - 00:31:26:25
Dan Issel
Guy, a country guy from North Carolina. Yeah. And so, but I tell people that if David hadn't had his problems, we would talk about David today. Like, we talk about Julius and magic and maybe, maybe even maybe even Michael Jordan. Yeah. I mean, he was that good.
00:31:26:28 - 00:31:51:12
Tom Green
The, I was taken with, a couple of guys. Great. You know, real cool NBA players from, you know, 15 years ago now have a podcast called All the Smoke, Stephen Jackson. And they they had a player on from from your era and, even a little later, later part of your era, who was telling them who Alex English was?
00:31:51:14 - 00:32:08:04
Tom Green
And I thought, these guys, you know, these guys should have been old enough to know who Alex English was, and they definitely had heard the name or something. But when they when he was telling them that this old timer was telling him how good Alex was, these guys said, how big was Alex, like six three or something? I'm going, so you guys have no idea who you're talking about?
00:32:08:04 - 00:32:27:03
Tom Green
You never saw Alex play. And I thought about that. I thought, that's a shame because Alex, who you got to play with, was one of the most unique, great scorers the league's ever seen. But he was also silent. He would have a quiet game and you'd look up and he'd have 36. Yeah. You know, he'd have a a career with no noise.
00:32:27:03 - 00:32:36:02
Tom Green
And you know he never got to, you know, play in that in that big series and stuff. But I imagine as a teammate you probably held him in a pretty high regard.
00:32:36:03 - 00:32:56:17
Dan Issel
Yeah absolutely. I mean the the best trade the Denver Nuggets have ever made from from the days of being in the rockets. Yeah. Was when they traded George McGinnis whose career was over I mean I love George. Yeah they he was he was he was one of the funniest guys around. But George relied only on his physical skills.
00:32:56:17 - 00:33:07:16
Dan Issel
He never worked on his game. And so when those physical skills skills started to erode, he wasn't much of a player. And we traded him to the Pacers for Alex English.
00:33:07:17 - 00:33:09:07
Tom Green
Was it the bucks or the Pacers?
00:33:09:11 - 00:33:18:05
Dan Issel
That was the Pacers. Was it? Yeah. Because the Pacers wanted George to come home and retire. He played for the bucks. Yeah yeah. No he played for the right.
00:33:18:12 - 00:33:27:20
Tom Green
I just think of Alex. You know when they traded for him he wasn't going to be the the guy who scored more points than anyone in the 1980s. He was a yeah a serviceable slim forward.
00:33:27:20 - 00:33:50:04
Dan Issel
Yeah that was about it. But he flourished in Doug system. I mean Doug's Doug system was made for for Alex English because, the passing game, there were no set plays. Right. And so it was, you know, we moved the basketball, we played the we passed the basketball, we moved ourselves. And then you got as a result.
00:33:50:06 - 00:34:06:17
Dan Issel
Excuse me. You got a lot of wide open shots. Right. And that was Alex. That was Alex now. And and you talk about fun playing in those games I mean if, if Alex, Kiki and I didn't score 90. Yeah we didn't we didn't have we didn't have it. It was having a chance.
00:34:06:19 - 00:34:27:00
Tom Green
But then Kiki gets traded. They make the big big deal. And Calvin you know, as much as Wayne Cooper and meant to the team. But Calvin in fact changed the team dramatically to the point where now you were a deep playoff team, you had a different nature about you. Calvin certainly changed the way people looked at playing the nuggets.
00:34:27:00 - 00:34:34:12
Tom Green
In fact, he's another guy I think lost to history a little bit. I don't think people hold him in high enough regard across the league.
00:34:34:14 - 00:34:55:17
Dan Issel
Yeah, yeah. And and and you know, it's nice that he got his jersey retired. And this year I believe he's going into the Colorado Sports Hall of Fame. I see it and it's all it's all well well deserved. But yeah that that that trade Kiki for half of the Portland Trailblazers roster changed the identity of the nuggets.
00:34:55:17 - 00:34:59:12
Dan Issel
Yeah we were we were we became a better defensive team.
00:34:59:12 - 00:35:00:08
Tom Green
A lot harder to play.
00:35:00:08 - 00:35:23:04
Dan Issel
Against. Yeah. And we we we became because Tom that was the problem with the league system when you saw us, you know, every three weeks, every four weeks, you, you you didn't know how to handle that. Right? But if you got in a seven game series and you played a seven straight games, you know, you figured out stuff.
00:35:23:08 - 00:35:23:23
Tom Green
Where to be.
00:35:23:24 - 00:35:36:08
Dan Issel
Exact. Yeah. And so, so that that changed the nuggets and of course, that was my that was my last year playing, playing in Denver was, the year, that we made that trade.
00:35:36:10 - 00:35:52:28
Tom Green
You wrote famously in your book to happen to have here parting shots. I don't know what happened to the cover of it, but about that last shot, that last game that you're the last game was a blowout. The last game the season had was ending for the last half of the game. And you got to pull the trigger on that one last shot.
00:35:53:00 - 00:36:17:09
Dan Issel
I'm sitting at the end of the bench. We're behind. We ultimately lost the game by 44 points, which happened to be my number one attribute. Yeah, right. I'll never forget that. But I'm sitting at the end of the bench and we're getting killed, and it's in, you know, against Showtime. And at the forehand. Yeah. Alex has broken his hand, so he's unavailable.
00:36:17:09 - 00:36:35:27
Dan Issel
A couple other guys had some problems. And I'm sitting there and I think I hear Doug call my name, so that can't be. What do you want from me? Yeah, yeah. Leave me alone. I'm down here reminiscing. And I hear him call my name again. So I get up and walk down to. He says, I want you to go in.
00:36:35:27 - 00:36:56:14
Dan Issel
I want your last shot to be a three point shot. Okay? You got it. So I went in and checked in, and first time down, I think Kurt Rambis was guarding me. And the first time down, I think he knew what was going on. And so he's covering me all the way out to the three point line. Second trip down wide open.
00:36:56:14 - 00:37:13:02
Dan Issel
Yeah. By the grace of God. And as you said earlier, I wasn't the three point shooter. By the grace of God, the ball goes in and Doug immediately takes me out of that show. So my last shot as a professional player was a made three pointer in the form.
00:37:13:04 - 00:37:38:16
Tom Green
You mentioned, Bernie calling you, you know, and suggesting the idea of you coaching. But between that last shot and you coaching, you went into the Hall of Fame, you know, and I, I just think that's such an interesting like did that add to or subtract from the idea of coaching now because coaching had to be a little not scary, but something like, I don't know what am I going to do with coaching?
00:37:38:17 - 00:38:03:14
Dan Issel
Yeah. You know, going into the Hall of Fame, we had we had one of the all time great classes, in, in Hall of Fame history. I mean, I was, I was I'm really proud of the fact that Julius and I went into the Hall of Fame together. We were the first players who began our careers in the ABA, to go into the Hall of Fame.
00:38:03:14 - 00:38:30:04
Dan Issel
But Calvin Murphy, I'm going to forget somebody. Andy Meyers. Yeah, from UCLA, Bill Walton I mean, it was an incredible class. And, so, you know, that was, you know, individual honors shouldn't really matter because it's a team game and winning the game should be. And, the top priority, but being elected to the Hall of Fame was really something special.
00:38:30:05 - 00:38:49:11
Tom Green
Yeah. The individual honors, though, after you play, you know that that that's nice. I mean, if while you're playing, you don't think about the Hall of Fame and stuff, but you do take the coaching and I imagine, you know, you and I love to talk about Doug. And then there's Adolph Rupp and you mentioned Don Manders, Nick. And, you know, the people who forged you as coaches.
00:38:49:11 - 00:38:53:28
Tom Green
And now it's up to you to figure out, you know, how long do we do layup lines?
00:38:54:04 - 00:38:55:16
Dan Issel
You know? Exactly.
00:38:55:18 - 00:39:09:24
Tom Green
You know, how do we inbound the ball? I mean, everyone knows how to do it, but how do we do it. And I it's funny because I was talking about this nugget team that went on the road the other night and played all these, you know, their backups and you forget all these guys are really good players.
00:39:09:24 - 00:39:11:17
Dan Issel
They're professional basketball players.
00:39:11:17 - 00:39:29:27
Tom Green
And they played great. The team that you ended up upsetting the Sonics with, when you look at it through the lens of history, say okay, the fans as well as two can blame a tumble mark mood. Brian Stith I mean, that's a really good basketball team, but I don't think anybody knew it then. Even they may not have known it then.
00:39:29:27 - 00:39:31:20
Tom Green
Did you?
00:39:31:23 - 00:39:56:17
Dan Issel
Well, I was hoping and the bar wasn't really high, Tom, because we had won 20 and 24 games the two previous do better than the two previous seasons. I figured I could. I remember we played the first exhibition game we played, was in Iowa or someplace, and, Don Nelson came up to me and he said, you're going to find that there are some real challenges to coaching.
00:39:56:24 - 00:40:23:16
Dan Issel
He said, for instance, how many times have you stood or sat and watched a coach diagram plays or put put things on the blackboard? He said, wait till you get up there the first time and and have to diagram something on the board for the, for these players. But it was Tom. It was such, such a rewarding experience because we had those those kids that you mentioned.
00:40:23:17 - 00:40:24:04
Tom Green
It's a quality.
00:40:24:04 - 00:40:28:08
Dan Issel
Group. Yeah. And not only quality players but quality individual.
00:40:28:09 - 00:40:29:05
Tom Green
Yeah. They wanted to win.
00:40:29:05 - 00:40:49:27
Dan Issel
Yeah. I, I recently had had had a chance to go to a nuggets game and Fonz was in town and I sat next to his father and I said, I mean his son. I said, do you realize that if your father had stayed healthy, his number would be, for sure, a Hall of Fame next, next to the campus.
00:40:49:29 - 00:41:01:22
Dan Issel
But that that team played so hard and practiced so hard and wanted so hard to be good that it was it was a delight to coach him.
00:41:01:24 - 00:41:26:00
Tom Green
So you as a player went through the ABA chaos. And then, you know, you come to Denver and Carl Sheer and the nuggets ownership had always been kind of patched together week to week season to season. And then I mean, there were some strange times. The only thing when when the NBA wanted minority ownership, but but they didn't have any money.
00:41:26:00 - 00:41:40:24
Tom Green
And so that thing came apart. But then later you were working as the general manager of the team when Cronkite came on board. But it wasn't like this smooth transition, you know, was it? There was a year of chaos.
00:41:40:25 - 00:42:04:13
Dan Issel
Yeah. No, it was awful. Bill Laurie, who, ironically, is Stan Kroenke, his brother in law. Right. They were married to sisters, came to town and was going to buy the nuggets, the avalanche. It was a package deal. And Pepsi Center, then Ball Arena. And so he and Charlie got together as Charlie Lynch.
00:42:04:14 - 00:42:05:29
Tom Green
And this is Comsat.
00:42:06:01 - 00:42:27:14
Dan Issel
He owned it at the time. Comsat is a satellite company, right. And so they were brought in by Commissioner Stern to bail out Bynum and Lee. But they were they were a publicly traded company, which is never a good idea. The owners were. Doug Moe salary was printed in their prospectus. I mean, it was that was ridiculous.
00:42:27:21 - 00:43:03:25
Dan Issel
And so they're going to sell it. Charlie Lyons is running the operation for Comsat and but Bill Lawry and Charlie Lyons are going to spend are going to buy it for $450 million. And Charlie is going to stay in for 10%. And so the the story that is completely false. That was it is out there is that I wanted to coach again and that and then that's why I fired Mike D'Antoni and went back to the bench.
00:43:03:27 - 00:43:14:12
Dan Issel
Completely false. It was derby day. I can remember because Sherry and I were having a derby party out at the dog track in Commerce City, right? 25, 30 People.
00:43:14:12 - 00:43:14:26
Tom Green
High Kennel.
00:43:14:26 - 00:43:25:26
Dan Issel
Club. Yeah, exactly. Very good. And and I get a call from Charlie. I said, yeah, why don't you come and have lunch with me and Bill? Great. I have to leave my derby party to go have lunch with China.
00:43:25:26 - 00:43:27:14
Tom Green
Sure thing. In the seventh.
00:43:27:17 - 00:43:54:17
Dan Issel
And Bill says, I'm going to buy this team. Charlie is going to be my partner, and I want you to go back to the bench. You're going to you're going to coach this team. The mistake I made, which was a huge one, was I then fired Mike D'Antoni, right, and named myself coach before the deal closed. So there's a guy in town by the name.
00:43:54:17 - 00:44:01:04
Dan Issel
I don't know if Dean's still around Dean Barnum. Oh, sure. He worked for the nuggets for a while now. He's got a sports management.
00:44:01:05 - 00:44:04:16
Tom Green
He'd become an analyst of sports properties.
00:44:04:16 - 00:44:29:17
Dan Issel
So somebody from one of the papers goes and interviews Dean, and Dean says, oh, this. This is worth 500 and $550 million. It's never yeah, never saw a book. No, but never saw any time. All right. Yeah. Just ballpark it. Yeah. Throw this number out there. Now the board at Comcast Comsat, which is a publicly traded company is it.
00:44:29:17 - 00:44:44:10
Dan Issel
Whoa whoa whoa. Charlie's cutting himself a sweetheart sweetheart deal here. He's staying in, and he's. And he's ripping us off by selling it for two. For 2 to 2 little. And so they lawyer up and with.
00:44:44:10 - 00:44:46:04
Tom Green
That, all because of Dean Barnum.
00:44:46:04 - 00:45:09:15
Dan Issel
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And with that Bill Laurie has gone the other way. Yeah, yeah. You can't find it kind of like last night's thunderstorm. You can't locate him anyplace. And so. So then this sets off, and Charlie is gone, too. This sets off a long period of time where we're in disarray. I'm the general manager.
00:45:09:16 - 00:45:11:24
Tom Green
The avalanche of the nuggets.
00:45:11:26 - 00:45:38:06
Dan Issel
Nuggets. Pierre Lacroix is the general manager of the avalanche. And we got nobody running it. And so stern picks Don Ellerman, who I think at that time was running sports. I think so, yes. Or he says he handpicked him, hired him, said you're going to Denver and you're going to clean this mess up. And we had one of the funniest stories, a guy, a guy by the name of Donald Sturm.
00:45:38:09 - 00:46:05:23
Dan Issel
Oh, sure is a philanthropist, a very successful businessman here. And so he signs a letter of intent to buy the nuggets for $460 million. Nice people. They had Sherry and I shortly after that, they had Sherry and I over for dinner, and it was great. And so we're in Don's office was in the bank of Cherry Creek.
00:46:05:23 - 00:46:30:05
Dan Issel
Yeah, yeah. And so we meet there, have a little discussion. He's going to go address going to McNichols arena to address the the employees. And so he said do you mind if I follow you? I'm not sure how to get to, to, McNichols arena from Cherry Creek to McNichols arena. He doesn't know. Oh. You guys. Oh, it gets better.
00:46:30:07 - 00:46:53:13
Dan Issel
It gets better. So? So he's doing his due diligence. And one of the things that really bugged him was that on game night, the employees parking lot was one of the nicer parking lots right there at Pepsi Center. And so he he said, we're changing that on game day. You have to park back in the back by that convenience store down there.
00:46:53:15 - 00:47:23:21
Dan Issel
And and the other thing that bothered him was that each each employee got two season tickets. Everybody that worked for the nuggets got two nuggets season tickets, an avalanche. And so he said, I understand that the predators have they have a pool of tickets and you make a request and when that pool of tickets is gone and then that's it, he said, are the predators NHL or NFL or NBA?
00:47:23:23 - 00:47:44:13
Dan Issel
Yes. So so the only reason he's doing this is he's sick and he he read Dean Barnum. Yeah. He thinks he's you know I'm kind of exactly at 460 million. Well he it took him about three months. And just like just like Bill, he was gone with the wind. And finally, and there were some other stories in that time.
00:47:44:13 - 00:48:14:24
Tom Green
What's it like? Because I'm thinking of of the what happened with the Broncos. Pierre Lacroix had a championship team. He had an organization that was kind of running itself. And then, you know, nobody bothered Pierre. The nuggets were up and down and like that. But when you don't have ownership guidance like like what you were experiencing, then what the Broncos experienced, you know, in the end years of the Pat Bowlen era, it's got to be pretty hard to make anything to make sense at anything.
00:48:14:25 - 00:48:42:10
Dan Issel
Well, and you're you're making decisions that you shouldn't have to be making. That ought to come from management or ownership. And you're kind of out there, you know, on your own making these decisions and, it it was a it was a difficult time. And ironically, Stan comes in and buys it for 450 million, which is exactly what, what Bill Laurie was going to he's going.
00:48:42:10 - 00:49:04:05
Tom Green
To get it's worked out pretty well. It's been a long ownership. And you also think it's been much like the Broncos ownership situation, something the nuggets have never had. The Avs neither really since coming down to the States rock solid quality ownership. And you can have issues with this or that or the other thing. But, I don't think Denver would be changing, you know, ownership.
00:49:04:05 - 00:49:08:28
Tom Green
I mean, the baseball teams an issue, but the basketball, hockey and football teams are in good hands.
00:49:08:28 - 00:49:32:24
Dan Issel
Yeah. And, you know, it's and it's nice, as you say, to have solid ownership that, you know, when it comes time to spend a little money to improve your team, they don't they don't have any problems with it. We talked about earlier made jokes about the scouting. Yeah I mean that for years and years and years. The the nuggets were on a shoestring, down through all of the different ownerships.
00:49:32:24 - 00:49:38:20
Dan Issel
And it's, it's nice that the, the Broncos have given that kind of solid ownership.
00:49:38:21 - 00:49:41:05
Tom Green
And they know the predators are in the NHL.
00:49:41:08 - 00:49:42:26
Dan Issel
So it's really cool.
00:49:42:28 - 00:50:03:29
Tom Green
When you talk about scouting. Whenever you talk about the nuggets now you got to talk about the Joker. And, you know, I haven't really heard anyone try to take credit for his choice because that's just luck. Yeah, I mean, they they pulled a number and they got the guy and they ended up they got the lottery ticket.
00:50:03:29 - 00:50:13:14
Tom Green
He's he's amazing. But you know, did you ever see him coming? Maybe before the rest of us did.
00:50:13:17 - 00:50:18:06
Dan Issel
I don't know. I, I was on his bandwagon pretty early and it was.
00:50:18:06 - 00:50:20:23
Tom Green
Him and Nurkic kind of fighting for.
00:50:20:25 - 00:50:43:22
Dan Issel
Exactly. But you could tell early on Tom the feel that he has for the game I mean it's just incredible. It's it's like he knows where the other four guys are at all times. And that I mean you can't coach that. You can't teach that. You either have that or you don't. Larry Bird was like that. Gretzky like yeah, one of.
00:50:43:22 - 00:50:46:09
Tom Green
Those guys who knows what's going to happen in three seconds?
00:50:46:11 - 00:51:09:15
Dan Issel
Everyone else. Exactly. And, you know, he's I tell people if if you saw the nuggets getting off the bunch bus and you sold somebody who didn't know anything about it, the greatest basketball player in the world is going to get off this bus. Joker would be about your seventh. Yes, yes. He's he's such he's such a big, goofy looking guy.
00:51:09:20 - 00:51:14:03
Dan Issel
But man, is he I mean, I think he's the best player that's ever played.
00:51:14:04 - 00:51:33:26
Tom Green
Take well take yourself out of it. But the nuggets let's say Mount Rushmore if you had to put four up there I mean Joker's clearly got his spot. Alex has got a spot I mean there are you know, you could put anyone up there. But when you say he might be the best player period to have ever played, it's it's astounding.
00:51:33:26 - 00:51:51:16
Dan Issel
No, I mean, he's obviously a lock. I said it's just how long is he going to want to is he going to want to do it. Because I don't think he loves playing the game. I mean, he's such an idiot. He loves the horses. Hahahahahahahaha IQ, how is.
00:51:51:16 - 00:51:51:24
Tom Green
Your.
00:51:51:24 - 00:52:02:23
Dan Issel
Move? But but, I don't know that he really loves playing the game. He's he's just so good at it that it's a it's a question of how long does he want to do it.
00:52:02:23 - 00:52:21:09
Tom Green
I hear people say that he doesn't love it. I don't I don't think it's necessarily, you know, like, you talk about his horses or his family or, you know, Serbia or whatever. But when you see his passion for playing the game, when he's in the game and the intensity with which he plays it, I have a hunch people undersell his love for the game here.
00:52:21:12 - 00:52:48:05
Dan Issel
Here's what he loves and this is what makes him unique. He loves kicking your butt and that's why he is. That's why he has that passion. That's why, you know, I've never known people who are successful in any walk of life that weren't very competitive. Yeah. And that and that's what he I mean, and that's, that's the way the game is supposed to be, Tommy.
00:52:48:05 - 00:52:55:24
Dan Issel
It's not supposed to be filling up a stat sheet, right? It's supposed to be at the end of the game. You have more points up there than the other team does.
00:52:55:26 - 00:53:14:18
Tom Green
I wonder, can he get better because he has the last since his, you know, first MVP? He's improved every year and he'd already put the bar so far out of reach. And yet he finds a little bit more. Another wrinkle and it's not just you know going up a 10th a point a game or so. He just gets better at it.
00:53:14:18 - 00:53:29:20
Dan Issel
It seems like he goes into each season saying, where can I improve? Yeah. Can I be a better rebounder? Can I be a better defender? Can I be a better free throw shooter? And he he seems to work on that and achieve it.
00:53:29:22 - 00:53:31:29
Tom Green
Can they can they win this year? Can they win it all.
00:53:31:29 - 00:53:58:12
Dan Issel
Yeah. If I mean they've got to get healthy. You got to put that caveat that there's so many injuries and so many people that, you know, are playing 40 games out of 82. You've got you always have to put that caveat kind of, do we have time? I got I just Steve Kerr recently came out and said he thought all the injuries were due to the up tempo, the pace of the game.
00:53:58:12 - 00:54:27:21
Dan Issel
Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Who of what coach in the history of NBA had the most pace in a basketball? Doug Doug Moe Doug Moe. Yeah. So I when I heard that I just picked a year random just I only picked one and I like 81, 81, 82 was the year that I picked starting five. Alex English played 82 games.
00:54:27:23 - 00:54:55:00
Dan Issel
Kiki van der Wei played 82 games. TR done played 82 games. There must have been a horse race on that. I wanted to watch because I only played 81 games and Billy McKinney was the starting point guard. He played 81 games, so there's five starters that missed two total games. So don't tell me the pace of the game is leading to the injuries.
00:54:55:00 - 00:55:11:20
Tom Green
But you also see the I mean the old league, the Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain I mean those guys played every minute of every game. Two there was you know, the reason there's a Sixth Man award is because John Havlicek had to play. It wasn't like some guy needed a rest. It's just we have to we gotta get Hondo in there.
00:55:11:20 - 00:55:32:11
Tom Green
He got some point. He's really good play. So. So this this year's nugget team, this little stretch they just went through where they had to play all these other guys and these injuries. You know, possibly you could look at it say this is a perfect time. Yeah. Perfect length you know get get these guys healthy and I don't care what we're doing in November December.
00:55:32:13 - 00:55:57:22
Dan Issel
That's why I like this year's team better than last year's team. Last year we had a really nice starting five. When Joker was on the floor. It was all all good, all good. When Joker went to the bench or any of the starters went to the bench. Yeah. And we had no depth this year. And again, again we got to get healthy.
00:55:57:24 - 00:56:11:16
Dan Issel
But especially with these younger players now having this opportunity to show what we can do, look at the depth that we have on the nuggets roster compared to last year. And so that's why I like this. If they get healthy, they can win the whole thing.
00:56:11:18 - 00:56:44:20
Tom Green
So as opposed to let's say wilt and Bill Russell playing 48 minutes a night, and nowadays you expect your starters to give you a 35 to, you know, maybe 40 minutes tonight at the most. Now with the nuggets, are they discovering something they need to use more of. And they're only 240 player minutes in a game. Right. How do you get guys to play and how do you get them to play like they played when the backups come in, play like they did in Philadelphia and play like they did in Boston and not be, you know, I just want to get the ball to Joker.
00:56:44:23 - 00:57:10:26
Dan Issel
Here's here's what I think you have to do. You have to give them an opportunity. Nobody can go into a game and show you the best he has. The first 2 or 3 minutes. He's out there. So so if you're going to give these kids a shot, give them a shot. And then if you know if they're doing well, if they're playing better than the player they replaced, leave him out there.
00:57:10:26 - 00:57:21:23
Dan Issel
Right. And if it doesn't then bring your starter back. But to me, you've got to give these kids enough time on the floor to prove that they're going to have a good night or they're not.
00:57:21:24 - 00:57:38:20
Tom Green
Well, that's so easy when you're sitting at home or when you're sitting in the arena. When you're sitting in that chair, though, David Adelman sits in finding those minutes and feeling that flow, especially over the course of, you know, the 40 plus games that are going to be left, it's, you know, it's hard.
00:57:38:20 - 00:57:58:16
Dan Issel
But but you have to you have to coach for this game that's right there in front of you. Yeah. You can't worry about, you know, am I going to hurt somebody's feelings? And he's not going to you know, he's not going to perform. And then in the next five games you have to coach for that game, win that game and then worry about the next game after.
00:57:58:17 - 00:58:17:23
Tom Green
I'll also say this about this squad, especially in the current NBA. They don't seem to have a lot of guys who worry about their feelings or their needs, or how many shots they get or minutes they play. They seem to have. And maybe that comes from number 15 and radiates out to the team. But selfish ball.
00:58:17:25 - 00:58:18:12
Dan Issel
Yeah, there's not a.
00:58:18:12 - 00:58:18:24
Tom Green
Lot of that.
00:58:18:24 - 00:58:42:06
Dan Issel
There. No. And you're right. When your best player is the player that sets the example. Yeah, yeah. You got no arguments, you know. Hey, Joker comes in 15 minutes early. I better be there 15, 15 minutes early. And that's about character going back to that team that I coach that that upset Seattle. And what a lot of people don't remember Tommy is.
00:58:42:06 - 00:58:44:03
Dan Issel
And then we went and played Utah.
00:58:44:03 - 00:58:45:15
Tom Green
A seven game series.
00:58:45:17 - 00:59:00:29
Dan Issel
We were down oh three and got, you know, how many series seven game series in the NBA that a team has been down oh three and now nobody's ever won, right. How many teams have gotten forced to.
00:59:00:29 - 00:59:06:21
Tom Green
Seven. I could only guess a couple. Four in year one of them.
00:59:06:24 - 00:59:21:19
Dan Issel
Yeah. Wow. So so, you know, but character is so important. Those kids, dicamba fans, Brian Stith, Mark moon, Williams, Reggie Williams, Robert.
00:59:21:19 - 00:59:22:19
Tom Green
Pat, you know, Pac.
00:59:22:19 - 00:59:31:19
Dan Issel
And they, they I mean Hammonds. Yeah, they all won. The next year, we lose fans to a cracked kneecap. You ever heard of that injury?
00:59:31:19 - 00:59:32:02
Tom Green
That's not an.
00:59:32:02 - 00:59:39:20
Dan Issel
End. And and and, Mark mood gets a little more distracted. And he.
00:59:39:20 - 00:59:41:01
Tom Green
Had a tough, tough run through the.
00:59:41:01 - 00:59:58:25
Dan Issel
League. Yeah. And and, and some guys start becoming jealous of what other guys are getting and so ball and. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. And the and the culture can completely crumbles and and that team who.
00:59:58:27 - 01:00:07:13
Dan Issel
It it had such promise. And then just because of what's going on in the locker room, not on the floor or in the locker room, the whole thing from.
01:00:07:13 - 01:00:17:07
Tom Green
But you know, you're never I mean, you see it all the time with teams where you go, you know, boy, we're so close. Next year is going to be better. And that's not guaranteed next year. Just next year. You know, sometimes.
01:00:17:08 - 01:00:17:29
Dan Issel
Exact.
01:00:17:29 - 01:00:27:13
Tom Green
Things change. I was thinking of with Valanciunas being hurt and Joker being hurt. And the nuggets head you out at the arena recently. And they gave you a jersey. Was that were they thinking about.
01:00:27:13 - 01:00:51:13
Dan Issel
Bringing you know I think so I think so and and the thing is Tommy that if all I had to do was shoot free throws, I think I could come I think, you know, so talking about that, that it's very nice of the organization that Kronk is to at least once in a while. Yeah. And my dear friend Lisa, to recognize some of us old people once in a while.
01:00:51:18 - 01:01:13:12
Dan Issel
And it was so much fun because, when they when they called me up and said, we'd like you to do this. And I said, I have one request. I need five tickets, I have five grand, I have five grandchildren. And they were all in town for Christmas. And so they, they they sent a car to pick me up.
01:01:13:12 - 01:01:32:19
Dan Issel
And I said, listen, I had to be there two hours early. I said, there's no reason for the grandkids to come down there. I said, I'll Uber down, send the car for the grandkids, and then we'll all go home. No, no, no, they sent the car to pick me up. There you go. Took me. They took me to the arena, came back, picked up the kids and went back.
01:01:32:23 - 01:01:44:04
Dan Issel
And it was it was so nice. But yeah, the the jersey and I, I've got a picture on my phone. It fit, it fit. You know, I'm. I'm waiting by the phone.
01:01:44:07 - 01:02:03:03
Tom Green
I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go. Yeah. I always love our chats. I appreciate you sharing a lot of these memories with other people as well, because I think I have always loved your story, your life. And, you know, of course, the book Parting Shots he did with Buddy Martin after you retired from basketball. So that would be now close to 40 years ago.
01:02:03:06 - 01:02:10:06
Tom Green
And but you're doing some other work now on a book about your life, that emanates from Kentucky, I guess.
01:02:10:06 - 01:02:39:00
Dan Issel
Yeah. And, you know, so many things have happened, you know, we've had we've had a couple of rough patches, that we've had to go through, but, what we've talked about today, doesn't seem at age 77 to be so important. Now, I want to tell you, I appreciate all my experiences in basketball. I worked, I worked hard, I worked hard to get that.
01:02:39:02 - 01:03:10:14
Dan Issel
But, you know, now, I'm so content because of my faith, because of my family. I have such a great relationship with, my kids and their spouses and and the grandkids and, you know, Sherry, I put up with her, but but my my life right now, even some of the rough patches we had to go through, I'm so happy and so content.
01:03:10:16 - 01:03:32:02
Tom Green
I love it looking back and thinking how you looked at things when you were 20 and 30 and 40 and realizing the vista from here is, is far more, valuable. You can better look outside of what you saw and felt at the time. And that's because you grow older, you hopefully grow wiser and, keep doing it.
01:03:32:04 - 01:03:33:12
Tom Green
Keep doing that.
01:03:33:15 - 01:03:38:01
Dan Issel
Well, growing older beats the alternative time.
01:03:38:03 - 01:03:38:19
Tom Green
Love seeing you.
01:03:38:19 - 01:03:42:15
Dan Issel
Thanks, Dan. Thank you. Tom.
01:03:42:18 - 01:03:45:23
Tom Green
I want to remind you of our sponsor, Golf Den.
01:03:45:27 - 01:04:03:22
Tom Green
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01:04:03:25 - 01:04:16:15
Tom Green
Have a beer. Enjoy your time while waiting for your flight out at the airport again, it is golf. Then check it out. You can also check them out online@golf-den.com.
01:04:16:17 - 01:04:29:29
Tom Green
I have one final Dan this whole story. It's so funny. I was, I was in San Francisco one time, and every now and then if I find myself at or near a horse track, I'll call Dan because he usually has an idea of somebody who might win in one of those races.
01:04:30:00 - 01:04:45:25
Tom Green
I man. And, we were at Golden Gate Downs with my friend, the golfer Mark Webb, and he said, no way. Dan on the phone. Dan goes, no way. You're at Golden Gate Downs. It has the best view you'll ever get from a urinal.
01:04:45:28 - 01:04:47:14
Dan Issel
And I'm like, what?
01:04:47:17 - 01:05:07:00
Tom Green
And he said, no, I'm serious. You can get there. You go up there. It's a brilliant view. And, you know, I just wanted to find out who's going to win the fourth. So anyway, Mark and I then set about to tour Golden Gate Downs, trying to find the world's greatest view from a urinal. And it wasn't on the, the, the level where you walk in, and we went up to the next level and certainly wasn't there.
01:05:07:00 - 01:05:27:07
Tom Green
It's just typical concrete and men's bathrooms. But we went up to the very swanky club level they have at the top, and it was expensive. It was a dollar to get in, but we both went in and we went back there and there was in fact a brilliant view, a wall about this high where the urinal is below you but above you.
01:05:27:07 - 01:05:48:15
Tom Green
All you see is the bay and the bridge and all of it. And as always, Dan was correct. It was by far the best view I've ever had from a urinal. Hopefully you learned a lot today. That's going to do it for this week. I love having you on board. You can like and subscribe and do all that stuff you probably already know how to do.
01:05:48:17 - 01:05:59:05
Tom Green
And, we'd love to hear from you. You can also reach out to us here at Gorilla Sportsnet. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you back here again next week for another edition of the other Tom Green Show.